Jaguar Hunting


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Jaguar Hunting

Postby Cat Crazy Miller » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:03 am

I was trying to do a little research to see what country a person can take his own dogs to hunt jaguar but haven't goten very far i believe Mexico is open but with every thing going on down there kinda hate to go there and if i would be able to bring the hide back so thought maby some of you old timers might have some info on it and wouldn't mind sharing it maby you've even done it yourself would love to hear from you Thanks Anthony
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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby Big Mike » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:28 am

Jaguar hunting is not legal in Mexico, lion hunting is not legal either. Ranchers can get depredation permits to kill lions when they are killing livestock. That being said the locals just kill them when they can with no permits because nobody cares. But if an american kills one then without their approval it could get ugly.

Not sure if the government issues permits for Jags in the same manor. There probably is some way to legally hunt them if your in with the right people in Mexico. You can't bring a jag hide across the border. I was down there last year a mexican tried to sell us a Jag hide. The ranchers would hire him to kill lions and jags, he mostly trapped them from what i could understand.

Only Americans I know of that are hunting jags are doing it as part of Studies and are NOT killing them.

Mexico is a weird deal when it comes to hunting. And make no mistake about it the areas that have Jags in mexico are in the Heart of the drug trafficking country

Bottom line if your in with the right people you can do it, if you arnt in with the right people do not go to Mexico, i bet South America is the same way.

Only americans I heard of hunting Jags in South America Rocky Mcbride and they hunt in paraguay
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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby sourdough » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:40 am

You may want to check into the legal status of the Jaguar, as I know that international treaties were signed in regards to the Jaguar in the late sixties. They were then added to the U.S. endangered species list in the seventies. I also think they fall under the Lacy Act. I found some legal status that might be able to help you.

Treaty
"The Jaguar is an endangered species and is listed in Appendix 1 of the CITES Treaty. It is also protected by national legislation in 16 countries in Latin America, and by the Endangered Species Act in the United States, which bans all imports of big cat products such as skins, stuffed trophies and clothing made from cat's skins. Enforcement of the CITES Treaty is left to each Party to develop national legislation and to enforce the treaty. Unfortunately, today enforcement and interpretation of conservation treaties varies widely through the region. Mexico, which did not sign the CITES Agreement until 1992, was the major gateway for smuggling species out of Latin America for years, but now that trade has lessened. Bolivia and Paraguay are also known for lax enforcement of CITES and many forged or stolen export permits appear to originate from these countries (Source: Fitzgerald, p. 20) It is especially important that all the countries in the jaguars range adhere to national and international legislation regarding sport hunting because the cats cross national boundaries. The next CITES Conference of Parties will occur in 1999 where member countries will discuss and vote on pending amendments."

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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby Big Mike » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:53 am

Also all the info and places ive been in Mexico are the State of Sonora in Mexico. Other states might have different rules but i bet they are close to the same.

Another weird thing about mexico is you can only take 2 dogs a person. We have been turned away at the border for having too many, then go to another port and they let you right in. My buddy got caught in a roadblock last year with his dogs(he had 6) and they tried to throw him in Jail. Well he talked his wat out of it 4000 pesos later. LOL

You can't take a firearm across the border either unlesss your sponsered by an outfitter in Mexico. That would be your best way to go is to find an outfitter who is already doing business down there

You need to have someone fluent in the language with you makes a huge differance
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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby chakuperu » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:49 pm

Hi all

I know of some places where jaguar hunting and darting are legal but its VERY expencive. PM me for more info.

Thanks,
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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby Brent Sinclair » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:19 pm

Hunting Jaguar... to the best of my knowing there is no legal season anywhere and I have done alot of reaserch on it over the years.
I had a long talk with one of the top officials for the Protection and Recovery of Mexico's Jaguar at the Mountain Lion Workshop in Bozeman, MT. awhile back and still keep in touch with him, I was told it would have to be a jaguar killing alot of stock or people before Mexico would issue a permit to kill one.
You can kill one in many parts of South America or Mexico, it would be illegal and why do it if you can not legally have it in your possession?
I took a jaguar on a legal hunt in the early 1980's when Mexico had a hunt in the Yucatan area and was still unable to get the hide home as Mexico was not on the CITES list with Canada.
I've spent 20+ years hunting in Mexico and that is the last place I would consider trying to hunt a cat...unless you like to gamble with the law, it's not worth it..... and to kill a jaguar just to say you got one ...don't make any sence to me.
I did see ranch houses that had big cat hides nailed to walls, vaquaros would kill or trap them in the Sierra Madre's for a few pasos paid by the cattle owners if they caught them killing cattle or goats .....at times they'd just kill them so they would not have an issue later on.
There are programs in place now in some areas of Mexico that compensate livestock growers to eliminate the killing... how effective it is I don't know.
I am taking clients to Paraguay with Rocky McBride in July to dart jaguar on the reaserch project he is doing in the Chaco and that is as far as I know the only "Legal Hunt" there is...
Big Mike and Sourdough sumed it up pretty good.

Personally, I do not think we should be trying to hunt or kill something that is not legal. Doing so, does no good for the image of houndsmen.
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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby WAhounder » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:41 pm

Hunting jaguar with dogs has been a dream of mine since i was a kid, my uncle had the chance to do it in south america but never did. I dont really care to kill one as theres no way to get it across the border but would love to run a few of them.


Brent sinclair, I would really enjoy seeing the pics from your upcoming hunt in july
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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby Brent Sinclair » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:31 pm

WAhounder wrote:Hunting jaguar with dogs has been a dream of mine since i was a kid, my uncle had the chance to do it in south america but never did. I dont really care to kill one as theres no way to get it across the border but would love to run a few of them.


Brent sinclair, I would really enjoy seeing the pics from your upcoming hunt in july



I am sure Rocky and my clients will not have a problem sharing the photo's and details of the trip.
I will check with them and post some photo's and info on the trip when I return in July.
Keith Bates wrote a good story in the 2007 March/April issue of SCI magazine of his dart trip with Rocky
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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby Benny G » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:18 am

Jaguar hunting has intriged me for decades. Through the years all things seem to change, and most laws seem to spread throughout the globe. Does anyone know the laws concerning jaguars in Venezuela? I know a guy that still sells "jaguar dogs" to someone in Venezuela.
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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby cmiller » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:39 pm

You dont need to be in Mexico to worry about drug problems, just come to Arizona. :shock: :o .
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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby WAhounder » Tue May 01, 2012 5:04 pm

Brent Sinclair wrote:
WAhounder wrote:Hunting jaguar with dogs has been a dream of mine since i was a kid, my uncle had the chance to do it in south america but never did. I dont really care to kill one as theres no way to get it across the border but would love to run a few of them.


Brent sinclair, I would really enjoy seeing the pics from your upcoming hunt in july



I am sure Rocky and my clients will not have a problem sharing the photo's and details of the trip.
I will check with them and post some photo's and info on the trip when I return in July.
Keith Bates wrote a good story in the 2007 March/April issue of SCI magazine of his dart trip with Rocky



that would be awesome. would love to talk to you sometime about running jag's and how you are able to get the opportunity's to do it. i'll have to do some digging, but i may have that issue of sci but i never remember reading that story. All ive seen of exotic cats ran with hounds is leapord in sci, which also look very cool but theres just something about a jaguar.
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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby az_gogetem » Mon May 07, 2012 3:21 am

Found a few little pieces of history this week. This is one of CJ's brochures from the 60's or 70's.

CJ's wife Dorothy passed away recently and our family has been cleaning out the old house they used to live in here in Eloy.

Sure does make me miss "Cowboy" and feel like I was born 50 years too late. Thought you guys might enjoy the brochures.

CJ had hooked up with a writer at one point to put pen to paper on a memoir and document a lot of his experiences but the plug was pulled for fear of repercussions from G&F. I would sure love to find some of those stories, unfortunately CJ's house in Young had already been cleared of his belongings, I'm not sure who ended up with his jaguar pictures, but he had pictures with the likes of John Wayne and Humphrey Bogart. What a different world it was back then.........


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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby az_gogetem » Mon May 07, 2012 3:51 am

I also spent the month of January in Northwest Mexico hunting "leon" for a couple of ranchers.

We had lion tags that were issued to us from the Biologist out of Hermosillo, just like the coues deer, mule deer and sheep tags.

I spoke to an old leonero down there and he told me they used the hounds to catch "jagwarundi" over where he was from about 10-12 hours east from where we were. But he said that it was not safe for us there, I cannot remember the name of the city he was originally from.

The Mexican authorities were easier to deal with than US Customs. I did not experience any problems and we went through military and federal police checkpoints. I traveled alone in Mexico but I do not recommend it for anyone that does not speak spanish. There were a few instances at checkpoints where my spanish definitely made the situation less tense.

The biggest problem I ran into in Mexico was property lines, we trailed a lion to a fence one day and my hunting partner down there told me we had to stop, we were trailing really well and I wanted to continue on. He told me "no no weudo leon jefe aqui shoot me and you" needless to say we pulled the dogs. The other issue was the heat and wind, it was in the 90's the first day I arrived. The temperature stayed in the high 70's to low 80's.

Take care and good luck,

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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby Mike Leonard » Mon May 07, 2012 12:19 pm

I have an old movie of Prock jaguar hunting and recall seeing it the first time when i was in high school. I thought it was funny on these hunts because he had native helpers that called and did a lot of the trailing and then would run after the jaguars with hounds on leashes and release them when they got the animal in sight. maybe that is just theway it was done for the camera but it didn't look like a lot of the jaguar hunts i read about with Tony De Almeiada, the Lee Brothers or Steve Matthes.
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Re: Jaguar Hunting

Postby papa » Mon May 07, 2012 10:02 pm

Sometime in the late 80s I went to Procks house in Eloy with a coon hunting buddy of mine that would help Prock chase dogs during bear season. He had 70 dogs at that time and was cooking for them that evening. Had a good chat with him and left to coon hunt at picacho lake. Little did I know that I was talking to a future legend or I would have taken more time. I believe he had a blue tic crossed with pit bull that was his lead bear dog at that time. My buddy was big Jim Wiseman...later moved to Kentucky.
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