Looking for the cascade bloodline...

[Smiley]

Matt , He is not pushing any harder now than 30 years ago . Nothing can be done till one knows there is a problem . I believe he thought the dogs were dead till a fellow hunter that hunted with Dee called him with information .
Point is the dogs origins are weems whether or not from Steve Mohr or Everett Weems .
To many people saw the SM on the ear to many people signed legal affidavits as to the true identity of the dog.

[Dennis Fisher]

The Timber issue was taken before the NPHA back then. Even with threates of law suits being put forth. But that a whole different story.

[Dennis Fisher]

Matt, one more thing. The possibility of someone being able to pursue or push this issue any farther has been gone for over 25 years. NPHA rules clearly state that once a dog dies, it's status can never be changed. Further more, it wasn't just one and his followers that pursued this Timber issue. There has never been anything said bad of the Cascade Lines outstanding abilities has great dogs. If this issue hadn't been important to many, the Line would not of faded away. To this day, Timber remains has one of the 3 most controversial dogs in the Plotts history. Long, long past his death and the true ending of the issue.

[sethmcalex]

[Catch]

[reed]

Like I said before Plottdawgs I would put money that there a few people around breeding dogs with a predominant Cascade background. Your best bets are the Northern woods or Tennesee. The guy that bought Timber lived there in Tennesee and the guy that bought bought Boulder lived in Wisconsin. I am not saying I am an expert but that is the areas I would look.

Hey Fish, thanks for contributing to the original post with your last two.

[plottdawgs]

Smiley: Thanks I really do need the good luck if im going to keep trying to look for a cascade dog. I really do like the cascade line so im just hoping that I do somehow manage to get lucky and find one.

Dennis Fisher: Yeah I knew about Timber and Boulder but not about the female. Whats her name? I will also keep watching the plott world site for info too. Yeah I completely understand about the busy part. But thank you for all your replies so far I really apperciate it.

reed: No I have not contacted Gene White. Where is he from and does he have a website that I maybe could look at. Ok thanks cause I really do need someone to direct me to someone that have cascade decendants. So hopefully this Rodney Burris can do that for me. I will also take a look in a APA brindle book maybe I can get something out of that. I wanna thank you for your reply it may help me out some which I really do need. So once again thank you.

[plottdawgs]

reed: Thanks again I will definitely check out those areas. Maybe I will end up getting lucky and find someone that does have a cascade dog. So thanks again I really do appericate it.

[Andy Drumm]

WASNT THE FEMALE THAT STEVE SENT NAMED SUGAR ? SEEMS I READ THAT ONE TIME

CASCADE DOGS ARE LIKE WEEMS DOGS AND SOME OTHERS .. ALOT OF PEOPLE WANTING TO RIDE THE SHIRTTAILS OF THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY BRED THE LINES .. DEE HAS BEEN GONE FOR SOMETIME SO I DONT THINK THERE ARE ANY CASCADE DOGS ANYMORE ..

[reed]

Plottdawgs, here is the link to Gene Whites web page.
http://plotthound.homestead.com/index2.html
The female I was talking about is the Blondie dog. There is a nice write up about her, as well as some stuff about Demoss.

Also remember anything you read on the plottworld site has an Ursus twist to it. Fish's version will be the way Steve Mohr sees it. Not saying it is right or wrong, just one, biased version. I am sure it will be good reading if you haven't heard it before.

I really don't know what the truth is and have heard sound evidence for a different story as well so that is why I said what I did. I believe what Catch wrote that Steve believes in his heart that the dogs were the ones he sent.

Good luck in your search. This might also be a good question for the Smithdealsociety or Plottdogs.com, or plottworld if you haven't already asked it there.

[larry]

C'mon now Matt, I haven't seen too much of an Ursus twist on plottworld, but there is an Ursus twist on that pup you sold

[reed]

You know Larry that is an Ursus pup isn't it. What do you think about it? Does it meet the Ursus criteria?

[larry]

Dunno Matt, haven't seen him yet, but I wouldn't loose any sleep over the Ursus blood since you are not calling him one. No need for approval and all

[Catch]

Big Fish, you wrote a article on your web site about matters in these posts. I will share with all what you wrote and then comment.

From Dennis Fisher:

Have you ever seen someone advertise a Weems bred dog for sell, even though Everett Weems has been gone for many, many years. Is this type of action by others acceptable? If it was a dog of Weems breeding, wouldn't of been far more honest and respectable to Weems and us all to tell the truth has such. Not has being a Weems bred dog, there is a difference. At least to me, and maybe I'm wrong with this thought, Recently on another site someone used this exact same phrase with a dog of possible Ursus breeding, but I know for a fact Steve M. didn't approve of it. To me it is totally wrong and disrespectful, not only to the men that Bred that Line, but to the others that maybe searching for that Breeding. Unfortunately I didn't realize that the ethics of using these wrong terms would have absolutely no effect on these type of people at all.
My mistake!!! I guess if their parents couldn't teach them basic principles of how to treat others, who the heck did I think I was trying to be, their mother. You see they laughed at the view point that only the one that Bred and had the Line Name has a right to use the name of it in their Breeding of their own dogs. They felt that if you bought a dog of that Line, you also bought the right to use the Breeders Line name. The definition of "Bred" in relationship to being "Bred By" is elementary to me and is clearly defined in about all breeding books and the dicitonaries. Now the breeding of the dog is totally different. It's also clearly defined in about any Breeding books or dictionaries. This is one thing that many of us are buying when we purchase dogs of certain Lines. When you buy a dog, you have every right to do whatever you want with it. If it's heritage is an asset, why not list it. But you don't have the right to call yourself the same has the Breeder of it. There is also another thing about this issue that's clearly defined in the Laws of this Great Land we live in. It's the definition of criminal offenses call misrepresentation and fraud. But maybe I'm wrong again.

There is another thing about this issue that I found very, very ironic. They choose to go against me on it in a topic about Dee DeMoss and what happened with Timber and Boulder. Maybe I'm also wrong on this also, but I witnessed the results of this very same issue and it's effect on Dee in his later years. For those that may not know, Dee was a legendary Hunter and Breeder of the great Cascade Line of Plotts. He travel and hunted his dogs all over the world and Bred a highly respected Line of dogs by all. It is said that he amassed a fortune becoming a Legendary Hunter and Breeder of Plotts. But he died a very, very poor man. Hiding from many. What led to his down fall was a simple allegation that he switch papers on the Breeding of some dogs. This effect on his life wasn't because Timber or Boulder were bad dogs. They are also legends in their performance. It wasn't because he sold dogs that weren't legally his, he definately owned them. The papers on the dogs is what got him in a ton of trouble, and those were of his Line too. A simple matter of being accused of misrepresentation and possible fraud definately changed his life in a very dynamic way.

In all the years I've been hunting dogs, it's my opinion that Houndsman of any Breed are basically solitary people. All we really want to do is just enjoy our dogs. But most of us also live with a basically simple belief. "you screw with my dogs and I'll screw with you." Most of us absolutely dislike any that can not tell the truth about their dogs. We can get along with the "Stretching of the truth". But lien and cheating is usually confronted by most all. I can name several more that have also been "confronted" because of misrepresentation something or being fraudulent in what they were claiming. But I hope you can see, and may possibly agree, with my side of this issue. Maybe I'm wrong. But the truth about a dogs origin or anything for that matter is still the best policy. And trying to use another's name to enhance what you are doing will never be right in my book. But maybe I'm wrong again.


Well Dennis you are wrong. Just like Steve Herd wrote, after the third generation you can call it your breeding. No one, wrote the dogs came from Ursus, they only wrote the pups are Ursus breeding. All four grandparents came from Steve himself, the pups are from Ursus breeding! You might want to call UKC and tell them to stop printing kennels names on papers so us uneducated people people won't know the breeding of dogs! Like normal you have taken a grain of sand and made a mountain.

Misrepresentation is when a person buys a dog as a bear dog, tries to breed it, and then the original owner writes it is not worthy of breeding.


There is also another thing about this issue that's clearly defined in the Laws of this Great Land we live in. It's the definition of criminal offenses call misrepresentation and fraud. But maybe I'm wrong again.

[Smiley]

Dennis you want to talk about crap behind peoples back I know that is the way that is ok on your site dance around and allude to something or someone when others know or even worse think they know who you are talking about . This is nothing but slander and I think your parents should have taught you better, guess not huh.
If you think I was using the Ursus name read my posts. I gave credit to the foundation dogs nothing more . I NEVER CLAIMED THEM AS URSUS or NABEK but gave credit to their fine foundation. Is not this honest and honering those that bred the dogs before me ?Also these dogs were spoken for before they hit the ground . I never sold one( I turned down a bunch of offers to buy these pups ) but placed these dogs into hands that will hunt and cull these dogs as necessary .
I can also bet if these turn out to be top tier bear dogs you would be the first to point out that they are Ursus bred dogs and not Mine .
Now as far as I see it, I will not take credit if they make super dogs.If they do I give it to their foundation but if they are junk I would be happy to take credit. That may be wrong but how I do it.
I look forward to see how you twist this one.