cold nose coyote hound

[dairyfarmer]

What you find in the running dogs is there are two types of breeders. One trys to better his dogs and breed colder nose dogs if he has to hunt in snow. Some people have more coyotes and don't need jump dogs so they arn't as fussy about what they breed they breed more speed and hotter nosees. One breeder from Minn used to breed just cold trackers and about 80% could do it, the problem is his has since passed on but you can still find his bloodlines in good jump dogs. When people try out coyote dogs the first thing they all want to know is how much speed and how hard do they fight, the last thing they ask about is how cold is there nose.They just want to know if they can run there own coyote. The first thing you should ask is how cold is his nose and most people don't know.

[grouse]

Kordog , i would'nt want my coyote dog to run a two day old track you would never catch it .By the way did'nt we have this discussion before ? I thought i had you convinced

[kordog]

nice one grouse . its that type of nose that it takes to keep one going on minimal scent conditions . i realize that finding a coyote track is usually never a problem . bobcats here can be a different story . no one is jumping out on a limb so to speak to tell me exactly what running dog line has superior noses. trying to breed it and having it are two different things dairy .

[dairyfarmer]

There isn't a line so to speak in running dogs like there is in tree dogs. running dogs are a whole lot cheaper then tree dogs and thats why nobody spends the time reqired to breed a line. You'll find a good breeder in different parts of the country, generaly the farther north in snow country the better nose you need on your dogs. In snow country coyote hunters are generaly looked down on by other hound hunters. What people need to rember is that there are a lot of tree dogs that arn't that good but get kept because they are good on a caught bear or other excuses. It took me 4-5 yrs to find a half way good coon dog for my son and I'm still not impressed. 25 yrs ago there seemed to be good coon hounds everywhere what happened. Our coon club co-hosted redbone days (now I've never been color blind on any dogs) but my thoughts were the quality of dogs was not that good.Which brings us back to cold nosed dogs how cold is cold nosed. My cat dog could run a 2 day old track my best coyote dog could run a 2 day old track those dogs arn't that easy to find abnd I don't think you can breed them that easy. Dogs that can run a 8-10 hr coyote track are more available I have 4 that can do it and are all running dog.We don't have that many coyotes so it is just like cat hunting if you can find 2-3 tracks in a day.

[Dan Edwards]

[perk]

Kordog,
Cant say about the cold noses used on coyotes, but there is line of dogs down in georgia, they are bourbon liquor breeding that tend to have extremely cold noses from the ones I have hunted with, I have one out of that line that will trail several hours old grey fox track when others wont smell it, nothing has less smell than a grey, especially a stinking coyote, I can smell that myself.

Dads Dog Boy on here seems to breed a good nosed running dogs for cat dogs, from his stories and our conversations they are good enough to rig/trail old cat tracks.

In Florida those boys run running dogs on deer, and the hardcore ones, not the foxdog/foxpen fieldtrialers, keep dogs that they put on 12-15 hour old deer tracks in the roads and they take it from the road and put him on his feet. Im sure there are guys up north who have the noses in their dogs too.

Alot of the guys i know with walkers with good noses who breed running dogs keep grade dogs, like myself its hard to tell you a line when they are just dogs that been bred outside fox dogs by outside fox hunters for generations. I have some with cold noses some i dont breed to be trail dogs, to catch foxes where I live it takes all types in a pack.

The cold nosed running dogs are out there, just gotta find them. Im getting rid of a male this week that will strike and tree as many coon tracks in the middle of the day as a good coon dog will at night, I dont want my fox dogs to mess with coons so he has to go. So they are there, running a tree stock hound on fox or a coyote would get you laughed out of the south as far as I am concerned. JMO
Perk

[Nolte]

I think some dogs can poke around on a 2 day old track and with a bunch of luck might even get it up, BUT I wouldn't put my money down on doing it consitantly. Then again, I ain't got much money. It all depends on the situation. A 2 day old traveling yote track in old snow that goes in/out of deer yards is probably not gonna happen. The same 2 day old track after a heavy fresh snow has got a chance. Good snow dogs get real sharp at using more than their nose to unravel tough tracks but still need to lean on it when the going gets tough. I still think it is few and far between the dogs that can do it. They sure don't come in bunches.

I've got not doubt that in other areas of the country running dogs are the ticket. Good hunters who pile up game use them and make it look easy. Up in our neck of the woods the majority of the ones I've seen are/were junk. I've got no clue on their bloodlines or if they were pen dogs or what. When you'd average out their strong points with their weaknesses, you were better off to putz around with some half-ass treed dogs. We had about a 5 year experiment with trying them and never found one tipped the scales in our favor on a yote hunt. I'm not saying they are out there, we just didn't find them and quit looking. But I'd sure like to, I dream of dog that can burn a yote for hours on end with it just out of reach and wide open on track. If it cold trailed, it would be just a bonus.

[kordog]

you may not believe it dan but when a dog crosses road after road and cat crossing after cat crossing on the same snowed in track hour after hour then finally jumps him well seeing is believing especially when you head in on the jump and see it played out on the snow. these are the type hounds we like to breed to . your entitled to your opinion . isnt that how they hunt alot of mountain lions ?

[Larry Emery]

Good reading guy's, we have a couple of running dogs that can work a old trail when the conditions are right and get the critter jumped, seeing is believing and sure makes for a enjoyable winter. Nolte we have some pups over here you should give a try, they are not proven crosses but the sires to these pups can get it done.

[mondomuttruner]

Many, many, many dogs will run a yote. cold tracking a yote that hunted all night takes a dog not many people have. nothing finer than listening to your dog pick at a tough track. its all about the challenge for me.
the running dogs I've seen dont bark nearly enough for my taste.

[hamilton10]

I personnaly don't want to hunt where the animal was yesterday. I want to hunt where he is at today. It took me about 15 years to figure that out. Then I got rid of my cold nosed dogs and started catching twice as much game. Unless you just don't have but a few of the particular game animals you like to hunt cold trailing is a waste of time. A least it is to me.

[Dan Edwards]

[henpeck]

Mondo if you want to see more mouth with the cold cold nose you may want to take a look at some grade deer dogs from the deep south which are running walkers that get crossed with fox hound walkers. They can flat out move a track, a lot of them I believe will trail a deer back to their momma, and be opening every breath like they are looking at it. A lot of deer hunters hate it and swear its all babble, some will if not used properly but most of them can smell what others will never smell. Most true fox hounds aren't supposed to give much tongue while trailing a fox if you want to get it jumped. Most fox are smart enough to know what's on their trail and get up and keep moving, and leave you hot trailing all night and never catching up to your game.


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[Holzy]

1280 Just get a good running walker and breed it with your bluetick. Then u get the best of both worlds. My brother has a running walker bluetick mix and she 3 month old. Shes fast and she has a good nose. We did 2 drags but we only put her on 1 of them and the next day she was just running around the yard she hit the other track and took off on it. And i ran into a guy up north and they running walkers/july hounds on bear.

[Snow walker]

I see this thread is a little old but it sure has lots of good info and how different everyone runs coyotes and what dogs they use or don't use from area to area..

Up my way I hunt coyotes mostly in snow on agg. land mostly with some wood lots, creeks, rivers, and a few lakes, CRP fields and sloughs..
For the way I hunt I don't like a cold nose dog for running coyotes, reason being is most of my coyotes live with-in a 2-3 mile terr.. Its only two to three miles but the coyote when out hunting at night will cover twice that with in its terr. so I don't want a cold nose dog following a track that may take all day to run down. A hot nose or a medium nose if there is such a thing would be best for the way I hunt them..
Fast dog or slow dog?? I want a dog that will stay on a track from a jumped coyote but I don't want the dog right on its azz, it just makes the coyote run hard and straight and that much farther. A dog that stays back a ways just to keep the coyote moving in the right direction and going easy makes short work of a hunt and in most cases end in the same section and with-in a hours time, some times a coyote gets by a shooter but in most cases it will lay up in the next section..
A dog running full tilt on a coyote just runs the coyote out of the section and the next and so on..
I started with a Redbone hound, some guys told me the dog wouldn't work due to its breed and size and said it would loose interest when on a track. (quit) I found out first hand this isn't true.. I know two other hounds men that run more than 3-4 breeds and a lot of crosses and do very well.
When I start a hunt I either go in on a running straight track with the dog or work my way through a section walking along heavy cover and letting the dog work the cover. Some areas I know where the coyotes like to bed so I take the dog straight in to the bedded coyote..
For a guy just getting started this is all you need to do if you don't have other dogs that have hunted before or don't have any coyote pens nearby. The training may take a little longer till you jump a few coyotes then the dog will catch on.. One thing I did was if a coyote came out of a section and the dog didn't get it up I still had the shooters leave the dead coyote lay till I got there with the dog and then would encourage it to wool the coyote. This seemed to help in my case.
Taking a track and varies weather or ground conditions and how they affect a dogs trailing ability: I hunt on snow so this is what I will talk about. Ground temp.s, blowing snow, wind swept areas will affect a dogs ability on how it will take a track and weather there is enough scent there for it to follow, also the direction a coyote is moving in relation to wind direction will affect the dog as far as picking up scent.. This is important to why a dog handler should work with his dog or dogs, to help them sort it out at times when conditions change and to be there if a dog gets in trouble. (back-up)

From following a track with my dog she will either run on top of the track with nose up or down depending if there is much scent around or age of track and direction of wind and speed.
A slit cross wind she will follow the track off to one side (down wind) about five feet away and parallel to it, a little stronger wind she will move out farther from track but still run parallel to it and the farthest out I've seen her run is about 30 ft. from a track with a good stiff wind. If she is on a track straight into the wind she will stay on center. A track going down wind she will follow center of track and also do what I call J-hooks, in other words she comes back around to check to see if she is running right. A good dog should be able to do this, if not its just going to take more help from the handler.. One of the problems I have and seen it happen to others is when a coyote crosses a fence line with a snow drift and a good wind blowing is once the dog clears the fence it will loose the scent due to a stronger wind blowing on the up wind side of it. If the dog is seasoned enough it will run a large loop to find the track again, if not you have to show them a few times and hope there are some low lying areas ahead.. I've had days when the dog would get on a track and run a coyote from the get-go and have had days that you just had to be there to help them along from time to time.. Snow, wind, and temp.s do funny things to a coyotes scent and leave you with days with a lot of head scratching as to why and why not. LOL
Coyotes in wood lots: I have some hunting buddies that would chase a coyote into a wood lot and then send one or two hunters in on foot trying to chase the coyote back out into the open, most times the coyote would just stay ahead of them or slip past and get back behind the hunters and then lay up till they came back around and then the coyote would just repeat what it did the first time. This would go on a few times and then they would give me a call to come help get the coyote out with the dog.. Oh boy! Reason I got a dog was to help get the coyotes out of the thick stuff. LOL These wood lots would be so tracked up by the time I got there and coyote scent everywhere I would still have to have a extra hunter go through them with me and the dog to get the dam coyote to come out.. I keep telling them don't go into anymore wood lots after a coyote till I get there, it makes it so much easier when there are fewer tracks and less scent. Usually I still have to have a hunter come in from the opposite direction and post up in a good spot where he can see and then take the coyote out as it comes by.. Well I think I blabbed enough so later and good hunting..

P.S. wounded coyotes: I've found that if you have a coyote that's been hit and loosing a little blood most any dog will stay with the scent as long as there is blood and the track can also be a few hours old. Really makes running them pretty easy with some blood on the ground even in very low temp.s and a good stiff wind..