Would you said training or they were born with it

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hillbilly boy
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Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby hillbilly boy » Tue May 16, 2017 7:22 pm

Ok I was talking to a guy that hunted coyotes with a interesting pack of dogs a black mouth cur two gun dogs and a German Shepherd

The gun dogs were the trackers and the German Shepherd was the kill dog but the cur was what he called his speed dog and it job was once a coyote was found the cur would use it speed to get ahead of the coyote and turn it back to the other dogs the guy said the cur was able to do it since she was a stock dog so I was wondering since I lost touch with the guy would you say that would sound like training or being born with it
al baldwin
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby al baldwin » Tue May 16, 2017 11:24 pm

I would say that is a lot of BS! Might have happened once however to think that is going to work very often, far fetched. Al
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby Trav » Wed May 17, 2017 1:13 am

I would have to agree with al.


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david
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby david » Wed May 17, 2017 4:17 pm

Hunting dogs do what their genetics tell them to do. Those that are capable of learning get better and better at their job with a lot of time hunting; and they use every possible tool their genetic makeup provides them with.

I think there are stock dogs that instinctively get in front of an animal or herd to turn them when that is their job.

I have hunted cat with a dog who I thought might be trying to get in front of the cat. There also were times when I didn't want to admit it, and I don't really want to admit it now either, but I felt like she might have been herding the cat toward me. That is exactly what it looked like, but it is just too hard to say it because it sounds idiotic. She had a fraction of stock dog in her breeding.

I think a dog whose breeding included cutting off livestock and turning them when the job called for it, might instinctively do the same to a coyote, if the coyotes became his livestock.

That is just an opinion. It sounds logical to me, but it might just be fantasy.

If it happened, i don't think it would be a thing of training him though. I think it would either come to him naturally, or not at all.
dwalton
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby dwalton » Wed May 17, 2017 5:56 pm

Decoy dogs will bring a coyote right to you or maybe other dogs also. Decoy dogs start out chasing coyotes them there comes a point when the decoy dog is ahead of the coyote running hard to get back to you before they get chewed up. Maybe thats what was happening? It is the nature of some people to not believe anything that they can not relate too or have not seen. Who is to say what was true or not? It is hard to believe, but I was not there to see what happen so how could I judge on hear say? Good hunting Dewey
Dan Edwards
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby Dan Edwards » Thu May 18, 2017 11:08 am

Ive had some smart dogs do some strange things. They were good dogs. I got some of them now actually.
macedonia mule man
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby macedonia mule man » Fri May 19, 2017 7:07 am

What kind of cross produces a gun dog ?
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby perk » Fri May 19, 2017 11:33 am

Believe gun dog is a term for some sort of bird dog breed, be it some breed of pointer, setter, spaniel, etc
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macedonia mule man
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby macedonia mule man » Fri May 19, 2017 1:14 pm

There is a difference in a field trial bird dog and one you would take to the woods to kill wild birds with. Maby that's what he's talking about
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby Cowboyvon » Fri May 19, 2017 4:51 pm

I've never been around any curs but I have ran a few coyotes with sight hounds and I would imagine it would take a heck of fast cur to turn a coyote and make him go where he wanted him too..
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al baldwin
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby al baldwin » Fri May 19, 2017 5:45 pm

According to one hunter with a world of knowledge, hound hunting is just what we make up in our minds when dogs are pursuing a critter, so one can believe anything they wish. However, if Hillbilly boy is thinking about seeking a cur & the other dogs used in his question to catch coyotes, I am confident he would be much better off investing in a good breed of running hounds , lace up his boots & prepare for some long days. Al
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby david » Fri May 19, 2017 6:20 pm

I am not a coyote hunter, but I fooled with them some while in North Dakota. Maybe it is just North Dakota, but there were plenty of coyotes that would toy with a couple pups. The coyotes would not run any faster than they had to and sometimes would not run at all. It would have been possible for a stock dog to get around to whatever side of them he wanted to be on. My pups wanted the side closest to me, :wink:

I realize that in woodlands a person can only guess what is going on in there. And maybe woodland coyotes are completely different, but these are things I saw with my eyes, and have photos of. The coyotes were even more brave at night, and I could not see them then, but they were very vocal at times and were not leaving the area, but doing their best to intimidate.

My dogs were very vocal as well, so I can only guess at the different dynamics of a silent stock dog.

Coming from the perspective of always chasing something down from behind with a pack of hounds, BGH might not be the best place to get the information You are looking for Hillbilly Boy; because all we have to offer are our opinions, with no experience doing what you want to do.

I do have experience with houndsman who said something can't possibly be done with dogs, and now they would do it no other way than the way they said was impossible.

I know one of the issues Hillbilly Boy is dealing with is shrinking areas to hunt, and he has said coyote hounds would not fit his needs for that reason.
dwalton
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby dwalton » Sat May 20, 2017 12:58 pm

Al you are so right about how most hound men make up what is happening out there when they are hunting, Here is a great example that happen last winter down in your area. Three of more knowledgeable hound men were running a hard running bobcat near where a friend of mine was working. They called him and asked if he wanted to come up and listen to a good hard running bobcat race and to hurry because the dogs were about to catch it. He jumped in his rig and drove up to listen to the race. Upon getting there and listening a few minutes he made the comment that there dogs were not running a bobcat. Being who hound men are they sternly question his call with the lack of years hunting compared to them and had not the opportunity to listen to there dogs run much. While the discussion was going on the dogs turned and headed toward them. The group of men informed him that he would see in just a minute when the bobcat hit the road in front of them. As it turned out a coyote hit the road just in front of the pack of dogs. That's a perfect example of how people make up what is happening without knowing truly what is happening. Good hunting all Dewey
al baldwin
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby al baldwin » Sat May 20, 2017 9:10 pm

dwalton wrote:Al you are so right about how most hound men make up what is happening out there when they are hunting, Here is a great example that happen last winter down in your area. Three of more knowledgeable hound men were running a hard running bobcat near where a friend of mine was working. They called him and asked if he wanted to come up and listen to a good hard running bobcat race and to hurry because the dogs were about to catch it. He jumped in his rig and drove up to listen to the race. Upon getting there and listening a few minutes he made the comment that there dogs were not running a bobcat. Being who hound men are they sternly question his call with the lack of years hunting compared to them and had not the opportunity to listen to there dogs run much. While the discussion was going on the dogs turned and headed toward them. The group of men informed him that he would see in just a minute when the bobcat hit the road in front of them. As it turned out a coyote hit the road just in front of the pack of dogs. That's a perfect example of how people make up what is happening without knowing truly what is happening. Good hunting all Dewey
Man, that good friend of yours should hire out as a dog boy. My ears ring so loud all the time if I had the funds would hire him myself. However just proves the best can get a big surprise, just when thinking nothing to worry about. Al
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Re: Would you said training or they were born with it

Postby Tanner Peyton » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:36 am

You don't half to be that fast if you are smart enough to figure out your angles. Pair that with a little grit and some persistence along with a decent set of wheeles and I'll buy it.

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