Do everything cur dog

Share your hunts and discuss your dogs
r_cordell
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Do everything cur dog

Postby r_cordell » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:57 pm

I'm looking for any advice in selecting my next dog. I have black and tan hounds now, and I use them for bobcats and lions, in the snow, mostly. Recently I've thought that it'd be nice to have a dog that is useful year-round, instead of just during cat season. What I'd like, is a dog that can do it all, herd cows, run cats, possibly toll coyotes, and be a guard dog for the kids. Not having any experience with cur dogs, I don't really know which breed or line to start with. I like the looks of the black mouth and kemmer breeds the best, but I won't pick one on just looks., so came here for advice.
I live in southeast Montana, and don't know of anybody close that uses cuts, so any help is appreciated.
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david
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby david » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:37 pm

http://bigskycurs.wixsite.com/bigskycurs

I have never tried one of these, so I have no experience, but they are advertised as exactly what you want, they are in Montana.

I have a freind who has bought pups off a black mouth cur crossed on a yellow lab. He has had lots of farm dogs and labs, and these are his favorite dogs ever by far. He doesn’t cat hunt with his truck dog but it has treed lions tending the irrigation ditch; is a natural livestock dog and very protective of children. She will retrieve birds or muskrats, is an amazing family dog and has the Kemmer/yellow lab look. One actually made her bed as a pup, would work every wrinkle out until her blanket looked perfect lol.

He does breed the dogs at times. He is in Whitehall, MT.
Irish Jack
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby Irish Jack » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:21 am

Have you considered the UBD?
Jeff Eberle
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby Jeff Eberle » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:22 am

It’s been my experience BMC’s are more protective of family then other cur breeds. But you’ll have to do your homework on them to find the ones that have more trail and tree in them . Bob Fogel use to breed some nice ones. Look around and take your time find someone that breeds for replacements in their pack instead of breeding to sell the whole litter.
Get JESUS In Your Life & Your Dog's In The Wood's

CLAVEY RIVER CUR'S
r_cordell
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby r_cordell » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:38 am

What's a UBD?
I've heard of Bob Fogel, he's down south somewhere, right?
Thanks for the replies, keep them coming!
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david
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby david » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:42 pm

Irish Jack wrote:Have you considered the UBD?



r_cordell wrote:What's a UBD?
Thanks for the replies, keep them coming!


Can’t beleive I forgot the UBD.
It is a dog Irish Jack Is pretty high on these days. I can’t say they are bad or good because, again, I have never had one. But Jack evidently really likes something about them so that is good enough for me.

They are a mix of border collie, scent hound, sight hound, and cur being developed and worked on by Dan McDonough on here for bobcat hunting. I think they still show the herding instinct also.

He has about three threads on the topic and I would venture a guess that if he had left it as one thread it would have more veiws than any other thread on here, ever.

Now that Jack mentions it, it might be really fun for you to try one. I don’t think you will find a more athletic dog that is bred for intelegence and all-purpose. If you want something that will go over the side walls of your pickup bed when you tell him to get in, or trot down the road over 20 mph, here you go.
(You won’t even need to tell him to load, just tell him to meet you there.) They are made from dogs known to be great hunting breeds (including the collie), so my guess is they will hunt too.

In all seriousness, Dan has put tons of time and money into the project and has used the very best he could find of each breed. It might be really very interesting.

The big draw back, and probably a game changer for you, is that they don’t have that Kemmer look AT All.
Last edited by david on Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
r_cordell
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby r_cordell » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:04 pm

I'm interested in this UBD! It sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. I'll look for the other threads on them and do some reading.
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david
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby david » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:15 pm

jagdlep@yahoo.com
Dan McDonough
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby kickemall » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:56 pm

A black mouth cur or catahoula is going to be hard to beat for what you want. I don't know anything about her dogs but Redwood Coonhounds on here, and I believe she has a web site, has catahoulas she hunts and breeds.
Irish Jack
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby Irish Jack » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:37 pm

Image

This is my pup from Dan, looks like a dandy, I have to pick him up before he changes his mind :D
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby dirtdodge » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:23 pm

Irish Jack. What is that pup out of? I got 2 of Dan's leopard x July pups. I seem to like them. They seem to have some tree in them and can really wind something good. Best of luck to ya!
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby Redwood Coonhounds » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:37 pm

kickemall wrote:A black mouth cur or catahoula is going to be hard to beat for what you want. I don't know anything about her dogs but Redwood Coonhounds on here, and I believe she has a web site, has catahoulas she hunts and breeds.


Thanks for the mention. I do run some Catahoulas with my pack. They are definitely a jack of all trades. Big game, coon, fox, squirrels, blood tracking, shed hunting, cow catching, hog dogging. Trailing, treeing, baying. My dogs have really sound personalities for the breed IMO. They will definitely hold down the homestead, but aren't super human or dog aggressive.
Cassandra Davis
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& Louisiana Catahoula Leopard Dogs
http://www.RedwoodCoonhounds.net/
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r_cordell
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby r_cordell » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:49 am

Thanks again for all the replies. Here's a question for you.... What's the biggest difference in hunting with curs instead of hounds?
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Irish Jack
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby Irish Jack » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:19 am

r_cordell wrote:Thanks again for all the replies. Here's a question for you.... What's the biggest difference in hunting with curs instead of hounds?


I would say cur dog owners have seen and photographed Big Foot more than any other demographic of people :shock:

Jack
david
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Re: Do everything cur dog

Postby david » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:13 am

Irish Jack wrote:
r_cordell wrote:Thanks again for all the replies. Here's a question for you.... What's the biggest difference in hunting with curs instead of hounds?


I would say cur dog owners have seen and photographed Big Foot more than any other demographic of people :shock:

Jack


I got curs hoping to draw in some Bigfoot for some selfies. I finally gave up though. I am starting to think Bigfoot are like honest Houndsmen. Everyone has heard of them but nobody has seen one.

You ask a good question r_cordell
It is a huge question really and I won’t try to give a complete answer.

But a hound is more like a pre programmed machine, and a cur is more like an eight year old human child.

Also, most hounds hunt for their own pleasure. A lot of curs hunt to give their buddy pleasure (you).

For a hound, hunting is an irresistible temptation. He will do anything in his power to be free to hunt. He will use anyone he can use to fulfill his craving.
He is incapable of feeling guilt , except an especially sensitive hound might feel mad at himself that he got caught at it.

For a cur hunting is something the two of you decide to do together today because you enjoy each other and you have a mutual interest in hunting. If a cur perceives that he might have displeased you, it might cause internal collapse. And you don’t have to say it to him, you might only think it.

A hound does everything automatically and only needs to be pointed at a certain animal, and pointed away from certain other animals. I have had hounds that were complete at 12 months old, were amazing at that age because all their pre programming had fully kicked in. And they never really got any better because they could not learn. They were completely instinct driven. They were good hounds with a high demand for them. And you could not ruin one of them. But they could not learn and improve through their entire life.

There are hounds that are smarter, and that is because there are hounds that are more like curs. And sometimes I beleive other non-hound blood has been introduced at some point. This is quite obvious in the “leopard hound”. And I have heard stories of leopard blood being introduced into others of the coonhound breeds. Non hound blood- is also still true of some strains of Plott, because originally, Plotts were not hounds. When I see hounds that don’t act like hounds, it is easy for me to suspect introduction of non-hound blood. But I also know of hounds that have been kept very strictly, but selectively bred with intelligence the number one criteria.

There are more culls in the curs than in the hounds. And a long time houndman who can not individualize his training program will ruin most any cur dog. And that is one of the reasons there are a higher rate of culls.
Again, think of an eight year old child. Every kid is very different, and five kids in the same family environment will turn out completely different from each other sometimes. And each kid really needs to be recognized for his individual strengths that need encouraging and faults that need correcting. And the way you encourage and correct one child may not work at all for another child; could work beautifully for one child, and destroy another child.

It’s the same with cur dogs.

Good curs remember. Some can forgive. Some have a real hard time forgiving. Either way, they don’t forget. And that is why a good cur will just keep getting better and better with each hunting experience. A good one will watch you and learn you and eventually predict your behavior and train you if you let him. And if they are hunted on cats every day, they will begin predicting cat behavior as well.

If you are an impatient person, a lot of curs would not work well for you.

But just as there are smart and sensitive hounds, there are dumb and hard headed curs. There are hounds that can be easily ruined, and there are curs that might be pretty hard to ruin (probably because that cur has a lot of hound blood).

As with hounds, also with curs (and people):
Their greatest strengths are also their greatest weaknesses. What makes them extremely gifted and strong in certain things makes them weak or useless for certain other things. Sometimes nurture, training and discipline can compensate for the weaknesses or correct the faults in hounds curs and people.

sometimes it can’t.

That’s when you try Prayer. :)

I hope that gives you a starting point. If you think of more specific questions, ask away.
Me and Jack will try to help you.

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