Ca. Bear quota???

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Ca. Bear quota???

Postby Dale T » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:58 am

Can anybody tell me why they think Ca. F&W would have let us go over the bear quota this year? Did the California Fish and Wildlife violate there own regs.?

Bear Harvest Numbers for 2012
Up-dated to 1,940
240 bears over the quota

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/ ... rvest.html
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby outlaw13 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:55 pm

well based on the fact that they know a bigger problem is going to evolve when 0 bears with hounds will be taken in 2013, and only a few hundred will be taken by other methods not including hounds. They probably let as many bears as possible be eliminated so to lessen the problem this year. It was scientific fact that as many as 2100 bears could be taken in California and still maintain a sustainable population.
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby Dale T » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:43 pm

That was my thought. In the past F&G have been pretty good at est. the take count, up until about 15 years ago F&G counted all bears killed in the take count (road kills, depredation, what ever) we were told that F&G wanted to raise the quota but knew they would have to fight the anti's to do it so they just quit counting all the bears that were killed against our harvest numbers and in that way the 200+ bears killed by other then hunting didn't count as harvested bears.
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby outlaw13 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:56 pm

I would think that only a limited number of bears are killed by every year by road kills and maybe a few with depridation permits. I would not imagine that 200 bears are killed by cars in a year. I would guess the number around 50 but i could be wrong. What other things are there that could make for 200 dead bears? What am i missing?
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby mike martell » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:45 pm

USDA Aphis Wildlife Services Hounds
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby Dale T » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:48 pm

F&G reported an average of 53 bears a year over the last 6 year with only reporting 22 in 2011, after talking to the USDA they tell us that there numbers have been under reported and that unless F&G picks up the depredated bear they don't always get counted, and the amount of road kills isn't tracked correctly because between CHP and Caltran most of the time they are dumped over the bank without a report, the 200+ est. came from the USDA.
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby mike martell » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:44 pm

Guys,
Recording is only going to get worse over time. Here in Oregon our ODFW sent black bear numbers in a different direction. I requested some numbers under the Freedom of information act and they did not coorespond to the actual kill numbers on paper. Once I called ODFW out with specific gmu's and the specific names of the snare guys it made a difference of several thousand bears over a few short years...Yes not hundreds but thousands! I don't think snares are probably allowed in California? but I know some USDA hound guys who are mighty rough on killing black bears over Government hounds.

Last week in testimony, Odfw reported no female cougar with kittens being killed when in reality I have both E-Mails from Anglin and Williams stating the opposite. Odfw mandates the killing to Usda. Odfw Administrator Anglin stated in an email direct to me that some land owners keep the cougar while Administrative removal cougars including females and kittens are being hauled to the landfill.

Keep in mind that for the third year in a row, Odfw has projected sport hunters as the culprit for the harvest/kill numbers....How does this sit with sport hunters in Oregon? I guess pretty well because you are sound asleep and since you only hear about this when I write this stuff on bgh... some of us are going to go after Government as a replacement tool for sport hunters and our hounds.

Government has a role...Get the f#$% out of private sport hunting! USDA needs to go trap out of control coyotes and use government hounds when stock is killed and the general reasons for starting Usda, not for replacing sport hunting like Odfw's select management and one select bear biologist suggest.

Here is the three state argument.....Will Government replace sport hunting or will we reinstate sport hunting with hounds as a management tool for Oregon, California and Washington States? Sorry to jack your thread but your problem is our problem and our problems come from Californian's moving north to Oregon and Washington. I know no boundaries, you are either for us or against us.

Good day folks! :D ....Mike
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby outlaw13 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:57 am

Mike,

Thank you for your post. I actually try and read everything you post. California hound hunters got another big fight ahead for this year to try and re-instate hound hunting. If its a no go it will probably be lost forever like the mountain lion. If Oregon got hound hunting for bears or lions back i know that i would then be on my way north. Right now things are not looking good for hound hunters anywhere.
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby mike martell » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:47 pm

Clint

I think we can win back our rights if we just looked at the facts and all stepped up to fight in all States across the U.S. I find it hard to swallow Government can just waltz in and take over our hunting with methods that are either the same (hounds) or Snares set over rank baits. Your case is a little different in that traps are banned. I know several guys who work for USDA in your neck of the woods....Here is my position. Not sure how any one can dispute this and my example will follow in the next paragraph.

It is one thing to have USDA owning and hunting hounds doing ADC work in conjunction with sport hounds. When you are banned and driving to the lake pulling your boat because you had to sell your bear dogs and driving down the road you meet a vehicle that the license plate reads Federal Government heading out to kill some bear and cougar with a dog box full of hounds not to mention on the backs of the tax paying citizens, something is wrong! Distorting the kill numbers, distorting the facts that not only suggest but prove they kill the females and kittens and I'm sure if a sow black bear has caused some form of damage and has cubs, they are all shot....

Guys, this is messed up! Please let me know what we can do here in Oregon and we will write letters and do what we can. I would love to get some hunting back and meet you in the woods!

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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby jasongNV » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:20 pm

I know here in NV. they're #'s are distorted. In the bear meeting this winter Ndow stated that the population is growing by 60% each year in the last 5 years. 42 tags are sold in a draw and 20 bears is the quota. They reported that an average of 200 bears were killed by other means, 97 by USDA hunters over hounds. The RGJ did a story a few weeks back stating NDOW that the bear population is expanding east rapidly and sightings in very unlikely places have been confirmed. Yet we have a bill in the legislature to ban bear hunting, we have become eastern California and they are threatening every state in the west. We do need to ban together and get the facts straight to save our rights as sportsmen.
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby dwalton » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:57 am

I hear the word government here that has taken away our bear ,cougar hunting. Who is the government? Is it the game commission or is it the politician or maybe the vote of the people? Or maybe a few people with a lot of money and know how to get what they want? WE as houndmen and hunters need to look at what is happening. What we have been doing to stop this trend has not been working are we going to do more of the same and expect something different to happen? The only way we are going to win at this is with money and using professional people to fight. The government and politicians listens to the most votes with the most money. Maybe before it is to late, if it is not already we need to go about things a little different. Dewey
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby mike martell » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:19 am

Disrupting policy and management starts with people with lots of money who know how to get what they want. A population of people dictating policy who have no business,couple this with our conduct in past years and you automatically lead up to resistance in getting any of our rights reinstated.Government is ODFW and Usda. One is State Government and the other Federal Government without we the people would cease to exist.
Lets compare our private owned and funded hounds to contractor and Government hounds.
One is funded by sport hunters while the other is funded on the backs of tax paying citizens. The end results are the same but clearly different with how we decide to harvest. Different because of a lack of funding with Government, mandates must be in place to slaughter all treed cougar treed over Government hounds while sport hunting takes management objectives into consideration. I listen to arguments about sport hunters unwillingness to harvest the kittens in the name of management. You got that right.

Sport hunters can out perform government any day of the week. Reinstating sport hunting and taking away the mandates to kill all would easily maintain a proper balance of cougar. How so? You simply hit quotas and shut down the gmu. This will eliminate the landfill plan of Government as we currently have it in Oregon. Black bear are in serious trouble with Odfw's unwillingness to set a management plan in place for well over a decade and this new plan opens the flood gates for the good friends and contractors who make a living killing black bear under contract. Probably the reasoning behind the over harvesting in California with bears leading up to the thoughts of restricting the management tool (hounds) and the what are we going to do in the years to come? California really sucks, Government Hounds will replace private hounds for both bear and cougar.I get the private property rights issue in Oregon (mainly private owned timber lands)and if you want to have snares over hounds. Snares have made life easier for the forester. How so? Lets compare the difference.....

Hounds leave the ownership causing land owner disputes, a con. Hounds allow you to select the sex and kill what you want. A pro. Hounds allow you to take the culprit bear from the base of the peeled tree. A pro.

Snares don't discriminate, they catch all, Some call this a pro. Killing all your females and cubs is a con over the long haul if you really care about management.GPS and a dead set or drag makes maintaining snares a breeze. a pro. Snares don't leave the ownership. A pro.Snares don't vandalize property like people. A pro. For what you would need to offer in funding to defend sport hunter rights a forester can fund his snare program for decades vs. giving to Oregon Outdoor Council or any other group that defends our rights. A corporation pro.

When you compare Private sector anything to Government there is no comparison. Here is our bigger issue in Oregon. Testimony last week in Salem over the killing of female cougar and kittens. Rep. Sprenger makes the case, government is doing it and followed up with stellar testimony from the sport hunting community is over the top. Enter State Government employees Ronald e. Anglin, Odfw Administrator who along side of Deputy director Curt Melcher begin with jargon pertaining to cougar plans and management and clearly one more year under mine all efforts of two previous years and testimony by stating, Quote. We don't kill females and kitten cougar.

Our previous misconduct is no longer a valid excuse. Oregon, California and Washington States are now all under Government control. Government hounds, government snares. Government is the problem people! When you compare we the people to our Government. there is no comparison.....PERIOD!

By State Government lying under testimony and no willingness to state who is doing the killing and the methods used, pave the way for clear defeat. Not by radical animal rights activist but by our very own State and Federal Governments in all three States! California is a classic example of decades long cougar bans for sport hunters while Government slips in the back door and does the killing and misteriously fails to report all cougar harvest over Government hounds.I remember the Usda guy in Northern California. Reference the post right here on bgh arcives who hunted the famous Millie dog that was the California lion hound sensation.You want to sit back one more year and not get the truth out to our elected politicians? Greed dictates the outcome folks! Nothing but pure greed, Corporate profits and I'm the judge of this cast and I have a dog in the hunt. What do you think the outcome will be?

Here is the three state debate in a nut shell......Will we replace all sport hunting with Government or will we allow sport hunters to be the management tool of choice? Time to take off the kid gloves and bit$% slap Government to the curb!
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby DirtyDave » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:54 am

Politics aside, I think the real answer is that CaDFG doesnt update the take report frequently enough when the end of the season is approaching. They only update it about every 5-7 days. There are only 2 ways to check the report, and that is the website and phone #. Both always have the same data. Probably costs too much in resources to count tags and update every day. This allows the quota to be surpassed before they update the Take Report and officially close the season.
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Re: Ca. Bear quota???

Postby outlaw13 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:14 pm

5-7 days doesn't account for the number of bears taken that exceed the quota.
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