Delete

[twist]

X2 with Mark. Exactly why I stopped going to the night hunts. Andy

[Varminator]

Candy Asses?? Rodney, who was the only one that didn't cross the creek to get his dog?

Dee,if you were hurt and still mending, why were you in the hunt without a Handler??

Who was the Master of Hounds at that event. Hope this gets attention and works out well for "All" involved and doesn't taint any future UKC events.

[DEE POWELL]

As stated, I withdrew my dog so had no skin in the game...I could care less if the little fellow won or lost... nothing was said the night of the hunt which was Friday night then come Sunday and the little fellow wanted a win slip. Yes he went across the river and I stayed back but he had 1st strick which is a 100 plus then a split tree for 125 which his old dog left just as well as my 1 year female did so he still would have finished with minus points...the little guy sure tried to win on false hope and no clue how these hunts are scored.
If any and all have any negative comments don't be afraid to address them in person vs a computer screen

[twist]

Just can't figure out why all the negative talk if some one wins and they are a young guy to boot one should comend them. But like I have said most in the night hunt circuit are poor losers. Andy

[Varminator]

Still Don't Know who the Master of Hounds was !
Dee was posting on this UKC Hunt for weeks (now deleted) and I know many were paying attention!

Rodney, Bob and Dee all posted what they felt happened. Which leaves a big question mark?

Dee said, Rodney didn't know the rules! That sounds like Bob must not have known the Rules either then ????

Twist I guess we should let it go, Dee might take these a negative instead of legitimate questions!!

Dee I'm curious, What was your 1 yr old female doing loose and across the river if you didn't have a dog in the Hunt?

[Redwood Coonhounds]

This is a shame. In my experiance Nite Hunts are always fun, light hearted. Down here in Cali, we don't have this drama. When a person takes it so serious,to the point they will cheat to win, or feel cheated they didn't win, then this is not the sport for you. It reflects badly on us that do it right, and just hunters in general.

KNOW THE RULES. QUESTION SOMETHING AND PUT IT ON THE CARD. FILE A COMPLAINT THAT NIGHT.

This to me sounds like someone that didn't know the rules, that feels they won regardless, or were cheated by the rules.

If you tree your dog, and it is in fact moving and fighting a coon, you have to go handle your dog and you get plus track points, no tree points, and depending on the situation at hand you are getting those tree points minus. The dog isn't treed and it has moved. I've been on the short end of that stick many a time. I've had my dog catch a coon on the ground and never even get a plus point, she never barked to strike her, just went down a ditch grabbed the coon up by its head. That makes ya walk away shaking your head. I've had a treed dog grab a coon out of a tree (tree climber) and fall into the water with it, then have a water fight down the ditch, guess what, minus your tree. Tough break. I hunt the THICK stuff, and when a dog has a coon caught, you know. To plus score a caught coon, dogs have to have to have it CAUGHT, not just baying around in the briars.

[Varminator]

Well, Thank You for filling us in on some of the Rules!!

[cobalt]

So if you can clearly hear the coon vocally while fighting the dog or dogs, you can claim strike points?

[al baldwin]

Anyone who wants to learn the ukc rules, might want to read the rules corner in Coon Hound Blood lines. I assume there is still such a thing in that magazine. Hunters write in questions asking for clarification on incidents such as this one & ukc explains in good detail how the rules apply to the questions. For a lot of years I enjoyed reading the rules corner, went to a few hunts and discovered some who had nite hunted quite a lot did not know the rules, has ukc explained them. Long time ago & sure I have forgot a lot & almost certain some rules have changed. However if the judge gave Rodney plus points on his score card & that card was returned to the master of hounds by the deadline, signed by the judge & handlers. Would it not be up to the master of hounds to rule on any points that had question mark by it? Thanks for anyone who answers this. Also thanks to Cassandra for posting.

[Redwood Coonhounds]

You cannot plus a coon you cannot see. You have to go catch your dog off the coon (or hole, or pipe, or whatever) where they are "interacting" with the coon to be plus. You cannot be on the other side of the river, listening to the dog bay a coon in the briars, squalling or not, and conisder that a caught coon. Lots of times the dogs get close enough in the briars to make the coon pissed, and don't actually catch it, usually the dogs are up underneath it. The dog has to show proof it is caught, meaning it is not going anywhere. You can't consider the whole 500yd patch of briars a place or refuge, they gotta get him stopped, long enough for the 5 minutes to expire and you to walk in see the coon and grab your dog. If the coon has happened to "expire" in that time which is normally the case, it's plus, but you are suppsed to not let that happen if possible.

[Redwood Coonhounds]

Also I am not saying anyone is in the right or wrong. I am not taking sides here. I am a Master of Hounds, and just from what little I am reading, it sounds like maybe someone didn't understand the rules...

If his dog got frist strike at 100, and then was called treed for 125, then was moving around getting after the coon, which it then caught, then if the judged deemed it was caught it would be 100+ on strike and 125- on tree, giving you 25- as your total, which you cannot win a hunt with minus points. Thats a bad break, but you called the dog treed and it wasn't. The only time you really don't get dinged on tree for a caught coon is if it is in a pipe or hole or they have him "stopped" and you walk in and they haven't moved at all. You would then delete the tree points. Technically if you hear the dogs catch you don't tree the dogs at all, the cast proceeds to the area without waiting the 5 and gets the dogs handled (to save the coon) and you take your plus stike. Cannot get tree points for a ground catch period.

Also it does say in the rules your not supposed to be out there climbing trees, swimming rivers, and letting dogs near roads ect, if the majority of the casts says its to dangerous, you call a time out, which means anything you had on the score card at that time is void. Me myself I'm not swimming a river at night to score a coon to win a hunt, I will loose my points or withdraw if I have to and call my dog back.

[Old dog]

I understood Rodney as saying the "river" was only calf deep? and also there was no card present on the hunt? and only one hunter said it was dangerous> Rodney post on this will you.

[Old dog]

I also noticed that the judge said it was a scored coon and the only other hunter said he withdrew and didn't care if he won or not so it obviously was not a conflict. I don't see the problem other than they didn't have the card there. witch was not the fault of the hunter. so we have a judge scoring the coon and a hunter withdrawing leaving one hunter in the hunt. so how does the rules address this ?

[al baldwin]

Thanks Cassandra, I was assuming Rodney & the judge had crossed the river & seen the coon that had climbed up into those large briers, or the judge would never have gave plus points. I did realize a coon had to be seen before any plus points were given, also knew no tree points for catching a coon on the ground. If you tree a dog he cannot move then must wait 5 minutes before going to the tree. One has to really study those rules & those rule corner articles to understand the rules. How long has the danger rule been in effect? Recall Ray Mears, when he was an older man, expressing the importance of getting to those dogs & he backed it up with action. Also recall John Wick writing about wading in a swamp in the middle of a storm, having the water go over his high chest waders, to reach his Jug dog/s treed coon. I suspect those rules are such that it will be difficult to never have disagreement. Think that is why there is a judge, master of hounds & the option to appeal to UKC . I am very surprised an experienced nite hunter in the cast, would not have demanded the cast return to the club house to get the scorecard, before starting the hunt. Does the master of hounds still have to remain at the club house at all times, until all casts have returned or the deadline has expired? Al

[fallriverwalker1]

al the master of hounds or hunt director cannot leave the grounds until all casts have returned ,, the part about no score card with hunters baffles me since they are given to the judge when you leave the grounds , also baffling is that the judges word is final unless the points are questioned at the time points are awarded , lot of prolbems with what I read about this hunt do these judges really know the rules//