Gascon Santongeois

Discuss pedigrees, post photos, and etc...
schnell
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Gascon Santongeois

Postby schnell » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:08 am

I want to learn more about these critters and figured it was time for a new thread... (more emphasis on dogs and less on people this time).

So the most interesting feature I've seen praised, aside from the cold nose, is their heat resistance and ruggedness in the hot and dry. Can anyone speak to their experiences here?
Bow
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby Bow » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:59 pm

the one i have is vary cold nosed fast on track slow to start to tree but is getting better every day. he has some of the nicest feet of any hound i have. was not as fast a starter that i have had but he is making up for it now. i don't know if he is going to make a strike dog of the or not. the only problem i can see is having other dogs to keep up with him.
pegleg
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby pegleg » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:40 pm

In most strains I've used I feel the desire to trail on any track has been weak if not horrible. I know people will disagree and point at faithful ol Hoover. But I want young dogs that show this tendency first and the other traits in progression from there. I don't want a six month old track straddler I want a hound who will trail as fast as it can accurately. Some hounds have the ability to follow any trail but do so, so slowly its often pointless. The terms cold nosed track driver etc all have different meanings to most people. The gascon hounds I've worked with have started trailing early and naturally they have good speed on track and will run head elevated. They aren't the fastest dog on smoking hot tracks but are far from the slowest. They make few losses when running and seem less prone to running back tracks. Like stated their feet are the best I've seen on about any type dog. Not just hounds. They have handled multiple days hunting with good results. They handle my heat well better then some hounds from local strains that have been here for years. They seem well rounded hounds and breed true to type. They are slow to mature and that is a drawback to those who want to be finishing hounds out rapidly. I think its worth the tracking ability. They do need to be handled differently then most hounds and this is a serious consideration. They aren't dog aggressive in the least and they are not as gritty as some types of dog. "This is also something that seems slow in developing as the pressure they put on game seems to steadily increase" but I doubt they would ever be a first choice catch dog. The pressure is fine for bayed cats in rocks etc and no mistake they will pull fur. I'm not sure what some people expected from them. But for honest trail hounds they fit the bill fine. They are also probably a poor choice for dog jockies or owners that spend little time or don't train their own hounds. As they are VERY people/owner oriented. In a few years time there will probably be just as many distractors and proponents of these dogs as there are of every other strain. Some will be so mixed they aren't really typical gascons others will be slightly improved in one way or another and some may not make the grade but they are only hounds carrying certain traits and will never be more then they are bred or trained to be
schnell
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby schnell » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:48 am

That was an awesome reply! Thank you for your thoughts.

From what you describe they sound like something I would like to see in action (not just on youtube).

I'm obviously attracted to descriptions of cold noses and heat tolerance - but something that people bring up over and over is their personality. Honestly, It was probably the personalities of my first hounds that dragged me into this hobby. They are very people/pack oriented and have integrated into my family and lifestyle. This type of socialization is very attractive to me, as I'm looking for a hound that can teach me how to hunt. (I know - not the usual order of operations)

A critter that communicates with me effectively would be very appreciated. I know some folks aren't comfortable with it but I blur the lines between working dog and companion animal a bit more than most. I kinda like hounds more than I like people and try to spend a lot of time with them. At least while I have the chance...
Big N' Blue
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby Big N' Blue » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:30 am

schnell,

It sounds like these hounds would fit you perfectly. What part of New Mexico are you in? From what I have seen these dogs are very people oriented and want to please. Very non-aggressive to other dogs. A pleasure to be around and easy to look at.
PS I like dogs more than most people too! LOL
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby Hagerman » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:31 pm

I kinda like dogs more than people too Aaron, which is why my last 6 wives looked the part.
Oiler coach Bum Phillips when asked why he takes his wife on all the road trips.
Phillips: “Because she is too damn ugly to kiss good-bye.”
Not sure if it's true, just funnier than hell. A been there done that moment.
schnell
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby schnell » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:22 pm

Big n'Blue - I'm right in the middle of NM. I can hit desert, mountains, or in between, in almost any direction. Pretty much mostly hot and dry, even in winter, though I can drive further/higher.

The people orientation trait is quite desirable in a bigger dog. Especially with dogs that may be around children occasionally. And it helps if they're fairly friendly when they run through someone's camp or ranch...

Cold trailing ability is something I like, so that I can follow up and look at any tracks or visible signs, like hair, scrapes, etc. A really fast dog will outrun me and unless I find a vantage point to watch I won't be able to follow up later and learn what they are paying attention to on their track. I really like the hound to be able to show me what's important. Do you think this strain would be suitable for that kind of thing?
Big N' Blue
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby Big N' Blue » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:14 pm

sent uou a PM
liontracker
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby liontracker » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:27 pm

Bow, thanks for the phone update on Scout.

Folks, here it is in a nutshell on Scout so far. He is 1/2 GS x 1/2 eastern bred Sugar Creek. He is coming 2 yrs old. He stands 26" tall and is built like a racehorse. He runs for the front of the pack and more, everytime he goes out. He is very fast and very cold. His stamina is very impressive. He is very intelligent and easy to handle. He is very want to please. He is "thinned skinned", which is to say that he is very receptive to disipline and only a raised voice or hand is needed.

That's a lot of very's!LOL

Hopefully pics and vid soon.
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby African » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:49 am

pegleg wrote:In most strains I've used I feel the desire to trail on any track has been weak if not horrible. I know people will disagree and point at faithful ol Hoover. But I want young dogs that show this tendency first and the other traits in progression from there. I don't want a six month old track straddler I want a hound who will trail as fast as it can accurately. Some hounds have the ability to follow any trail but do so, so slowly its often pointless. The terms cold nosed track driver etc all have different meanings to most people. The gascon hounds I've worked with have started trailing early and naturally they have good speed on track and will run head elevated. They aren't the fastest dog on smoking hot tracks but are far from the slowest. They make few losses when running and seem less prone to running back tracks. Like stated their feet are the best I've seen on about any type dog. Not just hounds. They have handled multiple days hunting with good results. They handle my heat well better then some hounds from local strains that have been here for years. They seem well rounded hounds and breed true to type. They are slow to mature and that is a drawback to those who want to be finishing hounds out rapidly. I think its worth the tracking ability. They do need to be handled differently then most hounds and this is a serious consideration. They aren't dog aggressive in the least and they are not as gritty as some types of dog. "This is also something that seems slow in developing as the pressure they put on game seems to steadily increase" but I doubt they would ever be a first choice catch dog. The pressure is fine for bayed cats in rocks etc and no mistake they will pull fur. I'm not sure what some people expected from them. But for honest trail hounds they fit the bill fine. They are also probably a poor choice for dog jockies or owners that spend little time or don't train their own hounds. As they are VERY people/owner oriented. In a few years time there will probably be just as many distractors and proponents of these dogs as there are of every other strain. Some will be so mixed they aren't really typical gascons others will be slightly improved in one way or another and some may not make the grade but they are only hounds carrying certain traits and will never be more then they are bred or trained to be


Well your description is very accurate. I have identified 3 lines within my limited stock here in South Africa namely: Very cold nosed dilligent trackers coming from the French kennels that hunt hare, medium nosed medium grit coming from the Boar hunting kennels, medium nose good grit hard chasing "run to catch" from the Boar lines. Because I subscribe to the pack hunting theology I will not be trying to incorporate all these traits in 1 hound but for those that might I can suggest an outcross or several more Saintongeois imports from various kennels.
Get hold of Mr & Mrs Royer - Parc De La Romane and also Mr Michael Para.
schnell
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby schnell » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:51 pm

The folks at Parc de la Romane have some good looking hounds.

http://www.parcsdelaromane.com/TOCFrame.htm

What do you suppose importation entails? Would customs and quarantine issues be a concern? Is it just a matter of having enough money for fees?
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby liontracker » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:57 pm

schnell wrote:What do you suppose importation entails? Would customs and quarantine issues be a concern? Is it just a matter of having enough money for fees?


I takes a little more than that. It takes the right amount of money...and the right pup...from the right Foreign cross...from the right lines... picked out by the right stranger, that will potentially make the right dog for your stlye of hunting.

Many things have to line up perfectly.
schnell
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby schnell » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:58 am

I'm willing to let em get lined up. :D
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby liontracker » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:51 am

Yep, good idea and far easier and more productive than going it alone.
You should call me so we can talk more about that ranch family that is interested in these hounds.
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Re: Gascon Santongeois

Postby houndlover » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:57 am

Do you guys know of anyone who has Grand Gascon Saintongeios pups? Im looking to get a couple good bloodline pups. If anyone knows who has any. Please let me know.

Thanks,

Jonathan

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