Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

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pegleg
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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby pegleg » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:34 pm

I hunt with hounds and use kelpies or heelers for cattle. Now my hounds are medium to high drive but not insane. Some of the cowdogs are insanely driven to do whatever your doing and will run track or trail. But they also can't scent everything the hounds can. They get frusterated and shitty about it. Until it warms up and they can actually join in. So desire is helpful but isn't going to replace ability. A bit of nose and desire together go further.
I'm not sure about dogs taking real old tracks. I've seen it happen on tracks A lot older then could ever been caught. But most dogs learn what's catchable and what's not.and like us don't see the point in working for nothing. Bloodhounds have the desire to trail and not A lot else normally so for them that's reward enough. I don't think they have a better nose then other cold hounds just are willing to trail tracks those other dogs seem not catchable.
I've made a few mistakes by encouraging hounds that know better then I on tracks that they trailed for miles and never opened on. With young hounds it's part of training but once a hound reach four or five and ignores a track I take their word for it now.
Some game in some areas would be wiped out by a cold steady hound. The good thing about hot fast hounds is they catch when there's plenty of game and slow down as it gets scarce. So aren't as likely to ever clean a area out completely.
One of the hardest things I've experienced isn't the random aged track the dogs struck on. But getting a very specific cat when your always behind. That kind of hunting wears everything out and can be heart breaking. Its probably much better done in snow where the Hunter can get involved and really help. But if you try it on dry ground it will show you quite a lot. I have also found that it's sometimes those animals that act out of the norm that may show you something
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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby rockytrails » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:31 pm

One interesting note from the book I mentioned. Scenting conditions are always better when ground temps are higher than air temps. He refered to them as eg 4 degrees to the good or to the bad. If ground was higher than air it was to good. Aids in the scent rising.
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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby Bear hounder » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:27 am

A good friend of mine who has been hunting hounds for around 40 years ish told me one time that when you see those days when the smoke from your wood stove chimney hanging low that you might aswell stay home but those days that are making the smoke from the chimney draw straight up he said those are the days that allows a track to raise up he also said in our area the east is the least and the West is the beast talking about wind direction and if the wind is out of the east for our area that we live in her in ontario there is normally a low negative preshure day when the wind comes out of the east I guess that is why the west is the best fun how them old timers know best that is why I like talking to old timers some times they tell you things and you git to wonder has he been smokin the elastics out of his under were or what BUT then you see your dogs do that crazy thing he was talking about I thank God for them old boys for shure you guys have any old hounds men like that I'd like to hear their tales especially if it cold nose secret breeding tips and stuff lol good night

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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby Bear hounder » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:27 am

A good friend of mine who has been hunting hounds for around 40 years ish told me one time that when you see those days when the smoke from your wood stove chimney hanging low that you might aswell stay home but those days that are making the smoke from the chimney draw straight up he said those are the days that allows a track to raise up he also said in our area the east is the least and the West is the beast talking about wind direction and if the wind is out of the east for our area that we live in her in ontario there is normally a low negative preshure day when the wind comes out of the east I guess that is why the west is the best fun how them old timers know best that is why I like talking to old timers some times they tell you things and you git to wonder has he been smokin the elastics out of his under were or what BUT then you see your dogs do that crazy thing he was talking about I thank God for them old boys for shure you guys have any old hounds men like that I'd like to hear their tales especially if it cold nose secret breeding tips and stuff lol good night

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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby scrubrunner » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:16 am

No matter what game you are hunting, the demand for cold trailing dogs has always been greater than the supply. I don't care how great a line of dogs a person is breeding or how cold nosed the sire and dam are, one don't come along in every litter.
The greatest ones are freaks, when the ol timers talk about old so n so, they are talking about the best dogs they ever saw in their life.
In my 50 years of hunting I have had 5 or 6 extremely cold nosed dogs that could put game to running when average hounds couldn't even tell game had been there. I usually raise 1 or 2 litters a year, luckily most of the time before one passes away another one shows up.
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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby pegleg » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:48 am

I suppose if you have had a really cold natural hound it's rare to replicate it. But at some point you don't need any colder then what you have. Thinking on this I can honestly say there are men who have followed hounds along time that have made the decision to move towards a more medium type nose. If everyone worked their young hounds the same way it might be easier to say how often a colder pup pops up in different litters. This is probably where training and packmates have the most influence on building a hounds confidence in what it can trail and catch.
This also brings up my belief some strains just don't have what it takes to ever be successful on real bad trailing. Maybe it's my inability as a Hunter to put my dogs on better tracks But I've seen a lot of popular bred dogs.basically quit trying to find their own tracks. And a high proportion of them were what I consider high drive high energy dogs.
There is probably some truth to ground temp and air. But once that ground is hot enough whether the scent is rising or not it's to hot for the dog to trail it very far. At a certain temperature and humidity or lack of. I believe it's actually nearly impossible for a dog to smell much. I've had dogs stop trailing during the day that could go ahead and trail once the temperature dropped.
This is on lion not bobcat. Once conditions get off I'm lucky running hot bobcat tracks.
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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby Nolte » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:02 pm

One thing I'd like to mention is that for most conditions are not important. We get a day to go and we go. Just do our best on that given day. Now if it's a washout or too hot or something that is different. But most are loading the truck up if the gal gives us a hall pass and we've got a day off work.

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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby Guest » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:42 pm

Ya for shure we hunt the good and the bad but learning what makes a track better or worse helps me understand my dogs abilities no matter what sort of dog you got a hot nosed dog or a cold nosed dog they are all going to be working them tracks better if the conditions are right there is that old saying coming up again. So if I'm targeting a certain bear for a client and I'm checking baits I might not turn the hounds out if I know their is a chance of bucking that bear off my bait . I'll leave it for the better day and go dump the hounds on a different bait I think it gives the dogs the upper hand that's all. hear is a question for you guy's how far do your hounds normally go on a cold track before they jump the bear and how do you determine that the bear is jumped

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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby Bear hounder » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:42 pm

Ya for shure we hunt the good and the bad but learning what makes a track better or worse helps me understand my dogs abilities no matter what sort of dog you got a hot nosed dog or a cold nosed dog they are all going to be working them tracks better if the conditions are right there is that old saying coming up again. So if I'm targeting a certain bear for a client and I'm checking baits I might not turn the hounds out if I know their is a chance of bucking that bear off my bait . I'll leave it for the better day and go dump the hounds on a different bait I think it gives the dogs the upper hand that's all. hear is a question for you guy's how far do your hounds normally go on a cold track before they jump the bear and how do you determine that the bear is jumped

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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby SASS » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:12 pm

Bear Hounder since you mention wanting to understand what makes tracks better or worse I thought I would add this into the conversation. If you read up on the science of animal scent and scenting conditions you will see how different environmental conditions mix together to affect it.

For instance heat adversely affects it but not as much as moisture or lack of moisture does. Also is the animal moving in an open area on top of dirt and rocks or is it moving through thick brush, foliage, or other debris? Because if its rubbing or making contact with something like brush, the brush will hold more scent for longer than just the air itself will. At least that is what the studies that I read said. And there is a ton more as well as other considerations that will affect it but I don't think its necessary to have a PHD in chemical engineering to run dogs lol. I think having a basic grasp on how it works is more than enough. Just a little food for thought.
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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby HOGMAN » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:45 am

pegleg wrote:I believe most hunters would benefit from encouraging their hounds to really trail. I've seen a lot of dogs from popular lines that look great on good tracks. But some of these dogs never cold trail. Others get better but are never great and a large number will just quit if all you have to give them is day after day of bad cold tracks even hunted with hounds that can and will work the track. A lot of these hounds promoted as early starters are better left at home until they're older or just worked on better tracks they just don't have it as pups to really work a track. On the other hand even letting them mature only helps a few. Some become incorrigible on random trash if no hot tracks show up regular and other just sulk behind you until the tracks hot. Maybe the ease of shipping dogs all over the country has contributed to this mixing and watering down traits.
From my perspective someone says they want a cold nosed hound and they will tell you how the dog starts their tracks But then then if their hounds don't roar out on the track they load up and try another and pretty soon either the cold dog stops striking cold tracks or they stop using it as much. Either way it's a wasted nose.


I am going to have to completely agree, i think it comes down to several things on the ability to cold trail like you fellows are describing... they have to have to have the ability, which comes with breeding, and culling and if culling is not followed correctly it will ruin those traits. the other main part is up to the handler putting them in positions where they have to show there nose, not just pass it up and go find one easier... A good trail dog doesn't come easily... you as a handler can not be lazy especially if this is gone be your style of hunting... i had to completely rebuild this past year from the ground up due to loosing my top hound. i have several dogs that should have cold noses, and be able to rig... ive got two that will do it and two havent rigged or cold trail really well, part of those dogs problem is the breeding, i bred for speed instead of nose and they have that trait but are lacking the nose... breeding issue there on my part... but i got more of what i wanted (speed) and lost just a little of the nose... I have two young dogs i hunt pretty regularly about two nights a week right now and during the summer it was 5 nights a week.. both of them young dogs know how to cold trail because they had to learn... i got them running hot tracks really well, took their old dog from them once i seen they would run alone, and that helped my problem i was having at first now either of them dogs can do it start to finish.. Might have been like one of yall said at first.. like making a diamond out of the ruff but nows its paying off... but biggest issue ive seen with dogs a lot of the time it isnt the dog.. its the handler error...
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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby scrubrunner » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:07 am

Y'all mentioned about the amazing feats we've all seen rescue dogs do on the news and such. What baffles me at times is when I see someone has gone missing, they get the dog there shortly after, and the dog can't even start the track.
At those times, makes me think they should have left those labs or German shepherds at home and brought a bloodhound.
That's probably just the hound man in me.
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Re: Cold nose ? Fact or fiction

Postby HOGMAN » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:30 pm

scrubrunner wrote:Y'all mentioned about the amazing feats we've all seen rescue dogs do on the news and such. What baffles me at times is when I see someone has gone missing, they get the dog there shortly after, and the dog can't even start the track.
At those times, makes me think they should have left those labs or German shepherds at home and brought a bloodhound.
That's probably just the hound man in me.


Man i wish i could like that comment a thousand times!!!
Samuel Boutwell
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"There's two types of hounds, one follow hog's, one catches them"!
Run to Catch Hounds- Brookhaven, MS

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