Montana Lion Season Conflict

[406hound]

It looks as though MTFWP has inadvertently created a situation that is going to be a judgement call for houndsman in MT. The first day of winter lion season is Dec. 1 which also happens to be the last day of general deer/elk season. I bring this up because, while we are allowed to run our dogs on December 1st, as that is what the printed regs state, I'm not thinking it is a good all around idea. I think this, in the wrong areas, could be hard on how we are viewed by other outdoorsman. Imagine a guy trying to get his kid a last ditch shot on his first buck just in time to hear a pack of hounds rolling over the ridge and the whole hunt blowing up in his face. I only bring this up because as a strong proponent of creating a bear chase season in MT, I know some of the people out trying to fill their last tags on Dec 1 may be the same people we ask to support our efforts in the next legislative session.

[kehrer10]

FWP screwed the pooch on that one!

[final step]

So do you think they do this kind of stuff on purpose or are they just that unorganized?

[406hound]

I would hate to think something like that is intentional. Right now they have the two day youth only deer rifle hunt going on while archery season is still open. Not sure if I would want to crawl around in camo while a 15 yr old kid is packing a high powered rifle for his first time chasing the same deer I'm after with a bow. I assume they all are doing their best but if I ran my business with the same margin of error, I bet my liability insurance would go up a good bit. I am a firm believer that most houndsman are good at policing themselves and at times we need to take care of our selves while big brother is drunk at a kegger or busy chasing tail. I don't know how these things happen but we all know what we should do regardless of what oversight may allow us to do. I think our government shut down long ago...

[Hounder-]

Excellent point 406. Public image, even with other hunters, is a big thing. Starting a day late would save you some arguments with deer/elk hunters and at least not hurt your chances of them standing up for you.

And same thing happens with the WDNR (aka FWP) and their scheduling. Some think it is some big conspiracy but I really don't. I just think they lose their common sense at times and are just that out of touch with what is happening on the ground. Not all, but definitely the higher you climb that ladder for sure, and they, unfortunately, make the biggest decisions.

[brantpalmer]

I think it can work both ways. While working on a lion dna project i invited some snowmobilers in to a tree. They thought it was one of the coolest things they'd seen. If your being ethical some interaction with other sportsman could help educate and get support from others... Maybe I'm just a glass half full guy

[406hound]

I don't think there is a comparison between sharing a lion chase experience with a snowmobiler who is riding a machine that can be heard 2 miles away, and running your hounds across the same terrain that a deer/elk hunter is trying to get in range of his quarry. I, as an avid year around hunter, know I would have no use for a pack of hounds working a track across the face of a mountain that I had been hiking up since hours before grey light in hopes of slipping in on a bull. I don't even run my dogs in the same drainage that I know another hound guy is in, let alone run where there are others trying to spot and stalk big game. A guy might also want to consider whether or not to run a dog he cares to keep alive forbid the wrong rifle armed hunter bore witness to an opening day trash race before you put a stop to it... I'm 100% for exposing open minded public to my lifestyle but I give them the choice. Hard to imagine an elk hunter wanting us to dump the box so he can listen to a race while he glasses for elk.

[Matt_Potter]

I'm with ya - I'll be taking the day off.

Matt

[rfeen]

I think everyone just needs to try and be respectful on opening day and just hope that everything goes well, I myself will try to be as carefull as i can be, after hearing what happend in Idaho its scaring to think that we could loose one of our hounds to an angry hunter but i think if we all can get along our fight as houndsmen and our fight to keep our tradition alive will go so much better if we can have all the sportsmen on our side, as for the FWP hopefully we can get this changed so that we can avoid and conflict

[Deff]

The start of the big game general season varies from year to year but they try to give hunters the same number of days afield. Our lion and bobcat chase season has traditionally started on Dec 1. It appears to me that the FWP finally gave us just a little bit of respect. Most of the deer /elk hunters that I know would consider the sight or sounds of a pack of hounds a special treat on the last day of season.

[hvfd21walker]

Yes I will be waiting till the 2nd of December. 1 day will not kill us. We may need the help of other hunters in the future. Wouldn't want anyone to lose any dogs.

[dhostetler]

I am not hunting the first day either. I am not willing to risk getting my dogs shot by drunk road hunters.
I don't figure there will be to much conflict as most deer hunters around here support hound hunters and most want to get rid of lions anyway. If there are no conflicts at all statewide we could use it as ammunition for a Bear Season. We should all keep our ears open and if there are any conflicts that you hear of PM me, 406hound, or PChaser, as all 3 of us are involved with the Montana State Hound Association.

[iinvno1]

Wasn't gonna say much here however...after reading I will. I agree with some of the folks but I guess in my opinion it is foolish to think that this was a over site by fwp. dhostetler, I think comments like this are another way that arguments get started in the brush. I agree however that if there are no conflicts it is less ammo, ultimately that is the answer however are you willing to abstain when they by chance legalize bear hunting with dogs? The alternative answer would be to be considerate of others. If you see a rig parked drive on. The deer and elk hunters out number us for sure so yeah we have to walk on thin ice a bit however in my opinion we have just as much right to be out there as they do. Just be considerate. Speaking the truth is one thing but to have others misinterpret things that are said could mean starting "conflicts" So I also think it to be important to watch how we say things and what we say.

[406hound]

The only reason I ever posted this is to bring attention to the situation, and hopefully get us all on the same page. We all know that our season starts the day after general season and this is a situation created by FWP where we are accidentally allowed to get going a day earlier than we should. We all know our local areas well enough and where we can run opening day without incident, and what areas we could most likely stir up some s#it. I just want us all to keep in mind how we want our fellow outdoorsman to view us when we decide where to head on Dec. 1. We will surely be needing the support of non-houndsman in the near future.

[dhostetler]

iinvno1, I am sorry but I don't really follow what you are saying.
I have no problem if guys go out hunting the 1st day. When the bear hunting got voted down, committee members were concerned about hound hunters conflicting with spot and stalk bear hunters and berry pickers etc. What I was trying to say in a future bill hearing we could testify that in 2013 the first day of cat season started on the last day of the rifle season and there were no conflicts whatsoever. If there are conflicts it will obviously not help our case.
Up here in our area we have a lot of roads and those roads get traveled a lot during rifle season. When I hound hunt I usually hunt by myself and I don't like a lot of people around. In fact every winter hound hunters from Wisconsin show up in my area with a bunch of rigs and hunt where I usually hunt. I just don't hunt my regular area and hunt elsewhere during that time. So that is why I am not going out the first day I just don't want to deal with all the road hunting idiots.

I don't really think the FWP screwed up, as a lot of the season lengths are set in stone and the FWP can't change season lengths. The archery Season opens the first Saturday in Sept. and runs 6 full weeks + 2 days. The rifle season opens the Saturday following the last day of the archery season and is open 5 weeks + 2 days. The season length always stays the same every year no matter what days the dates fall on. The reason this conflicts is the first Saturday of Sept. fell on the 7th. We will have the same issue in 2019 again.
I figure there will be a lot more potential issues with snowmobiles, as most you our gates open to snowmobile use on Dec. 1st.