Mt. Lion Population Density Theory?

[ALEX]

I've done some work on a 270,000 acre ranch in southern California that all the folks with access to it say is infested with lions. Game cameras are placed over large areas of the ranch and lion pictures are very common as well as sign that is found. People have thrown out completely random guesstimates, not based on any fact of course, of extreme numbers anywhere from 30 to 100 lions. This got me thinking as to how many there possibly could be on this large ranch alone. What I've learned/researched about lion behavior says "in theory" lions just don't tolerate living in high concentrations among themselves, like maybe bears or bobcats might. But given the very high lion population we have in this state, it made me wonder if perhaps lions are so crammed that they are forced to have smaller territories and live in higher, denser numbers across the landscape.

I'm curious as to what some of you may think about this and whether you guys ever confirm finding a handful of separate, individual lions residing in one area you may hunt (not including any cubs with females), or if it just defies lion biology and people are simply seeing the same 1-2 individuals in one given territory.

[CRA]

Alex,

Southern California is and will always be great lion country. It's ideal habitat for them. Is there enough prey species on the ranch to support those kind of numbers? I've read somewhere that California lions are regularly feeding on raccoons, possums, hogs, beaver, and rabbits, because of the declining deer populations. A 270,000 acre ranch in California is a huge spread of land and probably has it's share of lions along with other game, but my guess is they are seeing the same few individual lions.

Here is a link to a u-tube video of a lion study taken in Washington. It has some interesting subject matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_ZD-PAKhSo

[pegleg]

Lion density is a hard thing to nail down. If the food is there it's possible for a lot of the general wisdom to be thrown out the window. On 270,000 acres a handful of people could on one day get a fairly accurate idea just by combing through it for kills. Or over time you can do the same. Just remember the vats on it aren't locked in just as those outside aren't locked out. Some areas just attract lions quickly so if one is removed it's place is taken very quickly. I believe in areas where it's possible for them to do so they don't keep as large of ranges. Also I've seen areas they seem very comfortable being near other lions and appear to be fluid in their sharing a area.
Then in lower prey areas you have one Tom patrolling his range continously against any intrusion.
I would have to guess that since lions are a fairly intelligent animal and like all others risk death from injury they have the ability to judge the risk reward of a encounter. If mating rights or food arent going to be reduced enough to threaten them they probably forego fights when possible. Also they don't seem as concerned about potential breeding rights in some areas and it takes a in heat female to incite them.
This is similar to those areas and times lions migrate up or down country following prey in snow country. I haven't seen much aggression during the mixing and mingling that occurs. Granted I dont have a huge amount of experience in those areas but have seen where toms have traveled the same course. And know if that as happened here in southern az a fight would have been the most likely outcome.

[ALEX]

CRA,

There is plenty of game for lions, whether it be mule deer, hogs, young elk, coyotes, and other species you mentioned. We've found more hog kills than anything. A lot of topographical diversity on the ranch too; pine timbered mountains, oak studded/ chaparral foothills, farmland, and desert.

[CRA]

Alex,

I'm pretty positive I know what ranch your referring to but I won't mention the name since you didn't. I'm sure that ranch has unbelievable lion numbers along with all other game. It is a hound hunters paradise. I know of only one hound hunter that had access to that place and he's been out of hounds for well over 10 years. Hopefully you have full access to it now and have a ringside seat to all your races!!

[406hound]

Even at your high estimate of 100 lions on a 270,000 acre spread, that's only one lion per 4 plus square miles of land. That kind of density is definitely found in localized areas of my state (Montana). In a state with the common sense approach to lion management as California has, higher densities dont sound unrealistic. However, it is probably unsustainable in the long term. That density has probably already peaked. Won't be long and they will start to disperse due to lack of your all wise Governor Brown being able to keep them in groceries.

[ALEX]

CRA, It certainly is a paradise, but it's not likely that I'll be running my own on any game in that territory. I wish.

406hound, Thanks for the input and sarcasm.

Hoping to get more takes on this subject if folks are willing to chime in.