Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

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Idcurs
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Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby Idcurs » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:57 am

Here in AZ a rancher must have a lion tag or show that a lion has killed livestock and get a permit from AZGFD to kill a lion!!To many ranchers just think they can kill a lion anytime they want.I know two in the Mohave county area that just kill every lion they can,one is on the Willows Ranch and the other is on the Xbar1!!!I have found dead lions on both ranches that have been killed and left.Also no permits were giving for these dead lions.Most of these cowboys that have lion dogs just think that lion laws don't apply to them!!!!Its only for us other lion hunters!!!!!I am sure this goes on in other western states also.I can only hope that Azgfd would put in as much effort catching these poachers as they would for a deer poacher---not likely!!!
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Wht
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby Wht » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:14 pm

How many times have they been reported to AZGFD?
rockytrails
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby rockytrails » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:06 pm

Sometimes best to let it go. If you're finding them on a ranch and accusing them you probably won't be welcome anymore. Sportsmen and ranchers have been allies in the past. Now mostly posted land. Most new hunters kill everything. Then we learn.
Idcurs
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby Idcurs » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:53 am

rockytrails wrote:Sometimes best to let it go. If you're finding them on a ranch and accusing them you probably won't be welcome anymore. Sportsmen and ranchers have been allies in the past. Now mostly posted land. Most new hunters kill everything. Then we learn.
Thats a bad idea if they were killing elk they would be in jail now,why should it just be looked over because its lions?????And all of the private on these ranches is locked off already!!!!This happens on Blm and state land.Some ranchers are on hunters side but not all---so we have to take the bad with the good!!!!!Thats BS!!!!
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby Gritty dogs » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:57 pm

I was just wondering the ranches you were on did you have permission to be there or were you trespassing on them? If you did have permission why not just go talk to the ranchers about the problem and find out what there side is. Maybe the cat you found was trailed from a kill it made on the ranchers livestock and needed to be put down! Your statement about if it was elk they would care might be true but last I checked elk are not killing and eating livestock! If you were finding numerous lions killed on the ranch maybe they do have a huge problem with them and would be happy to have your help hunting them! In my opinion ranchers should be able to protect there livestock from any predators lion,wolfs,bear,coyotes or any thing else that may harm there livestock. And when a problem happens it needs to be addressed at that time not hours or days later when the paperwork is done if you are going to solve the problem you need to do it when you have the best chance and that is as soon as possible! Predators and livestock have always been a problem But any time one houndsman throws another under the bus on this wonderful social media it makes us all look bad and they use it against us all! I hope you can talk to these ranchers and work out your differences and who knows he might let you take your dog hunting with his so you can catch a lion!!
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby rockytrails » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:18 pm

Curs, your seeing red. By let it go I mean relax, calm yourself, think it over. I disagree that the wardens or whatever AZ calls them would treat illegal lion kills differently than elk. You were blaming ranchers then you said cowboys. There is a difference. I don't condone any poaching as you are suggesting I do. Just tried to throw out a couple things for upu to think about. E.G.file a report if you have proof, maybe even if you don't. If it's as bad as you say I'm sure your cowboys would be watched. Tough to prove, but any cats are probably more priority than elk are. Good luck in your endeavor, sorry I commented to start with and I'm done commenting.
Idcurs
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby Idcurs » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:54 am

Gritty dogs wrote:I was just wondering the ranches you were on did you have permission to be there or were you trespassing on them? If you did have permission why not just go talk to the ranchers about the problem and find out what there side is. Maybe the cat you found was trailed from a kill it made on the ranchers livestock and needed to be put down! Your statement about if it was elk they would care might be true but last I checked elk are not killing and eating livestock! If you were finding numerous lions killed on the ranch maybe they do have a huge problem with them and would be happy to have your help hunting them! In my opinion ranchers should be able to protect there livestock from any predators lion,wolfs,bear,coyotes or any thing else that may harm there livestock. And when a problem happens it needs to be addressed at that time not hours or days later when the paperwork is done if you are going to solve the problem you need to do it when you have the best chance and that is as soon as possible! Predators and livestock have always been a problem But any time one houndsman throws another under the bus on this wonderful social media it makes us all look bad and they use it against us all! I hope you can talk to these ranchers and work out your differences and who knows he might let you take your dog hunting with his so you can catch a lion!!
First off if you read my post I said it is all state and blm land that I hunt on MY LAND not the POS Ranchers.The private that is on these ranches are locked off now and have been for a long time.So you think that the laws don't apply to ranchers????They might have to follow the law and that would take to long,do you go kill lions for ranchers like Larry Hendriks did?And if they were so good of houndmens I have never seen any of them at our GFD meetings on the lion new laws that went in effect in the last couple years.They just own dogs to kill lions illegal not a houndmens a poacher!!!!!
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby rockytrails » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:26 pm

[quote="Idcurs"!I have found dead lions on both ranches that have been killed /quote]
Idcurs
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby Idcurs » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:41 pm

rockytrails wrote:[quote="Idcurs"!I have found dead lions on both ranches that have been killed /quote][/quote]
I did find dead lions on both ranches--on the blm and state land!!!!!!!Thats my land!!!!!
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby rockytrails » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:29 pm

Ok, have to comment. Curs profile says he's a "ranch manager". What kind of ranch? Federal land is not a ranch. If you are on a ranch you are on private land. Ranches do have grazing allotments that they pay AUMs to use, these are public lands. Yours as you say. My gut says the Red Baron is back again.
Idcurs
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby Idcurs » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:38 pm

I have State and private,how fu47ing stupid are you.Many big ranches in Az are state and forrest or blm.ORO-BigBo-FlyingM-Bar-T-Bar .None of these RANCHES are All private.And if you don't think that blm or state land is your's-you are a lib democrap!!!!!
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby kolob2034 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:00 pm

Evidently you have never lost any livestock to predators. These people have a right to try and make a living too. A person should spend their time hunting harder in a new area rather than try to get someone regulated out of business. My experience with ranchers or allotment owners whatever you choose to call them is that they are our best allies.
Idcurs
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby Idcurs » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:21 pm

kolob2034 wrote:Evidently you have never lost any livestock to predators. These people have a right to try and make a living too. A person should spend their time hunting harder in a new area rather than try to get someone regulated out of business. My experience with ranchers or allotment owners whatever you choose to call them is that they are our best allies.
So if they(ranchers) have state-blm -or forrest land,they have the right to poach?????Why do they get a pass and a hunter that pays for a tag does not?????
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby WillowsCowboy » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:05 pm

Idcurs you talk more trash than your hounds.
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Re: Lion Killing Ranchers!!!!

Postby r_cordell » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:35 pm

If you're finding these dead cats on public ground, what makes you think it's the rancher that's poaching them? Sounds like you're jumping to conclusions to me. Since it is, like you said, public ground, it could be any Tom, Dick or Harry out there..... My 2 cents.
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