Hopmans cat crazy walkers

Talk about Cougar Hunting with Dogs
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Hopmans cat crazy walkers

Postby Bearkiller » Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:53 pm

I was looking through an old full cry and saw an ad for these dogs. The guy lives in prescott,az. It said in the ad that the dogs had run this lion for 20 miles on dry ground in a strong wind. I don't know if you've ever walked/run 20 miles but thats a LONG ways. If it was 20 miles by roads but only a few miles cross country I wouldn't be surprised. If the dogs do that, I want one. Just wondering if anyone has ever hunted this line of dogs and if so, are they what they cracked up to be?
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Postby Melanie Hampton » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:06 pm

Seen the ad....They might be all that... But why don't you hear more people talking about them other then what you see in the Full Cry ad??

I am kinda calling BS on that one.. I have had dogs end up 20 miles from where I turned them loose.... But that was a couple day later :D
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Postby Bearkiller » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:13 pm

Those were my thoughts. Thats why I posted this. I've heard the name but don't remember anything that great.
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Postby Buddyw » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:47 pm

20 miles isn't that much for a dog,

I'll road 17 -20 miles miles easy in a night and the dogs are begging for more. And I've visually seen them 7-8 according the the GPS when I called them off and they headed back to were I dropped them off(dumb-asses..:) ) .. with in an hour or two's time So a saying a dog running 20 miles doesn't really bother me..

Now.. Will my dogs run a dry Lion track in the wind for 20 miles....As stated... HELL NO..

Regardless, I remember people talking about that guy before and the consensius was there was some slight exaggerations being made. I don't think people were buying it.
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Postby treeing walkers » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:04 am

I would believe it if it was on snow or something like what we got up here high humidity and brush, but on dry dusty ground with the wind blowing....... BS For one the ground the scent was laid on would gone with the wind blowing. And for two their non-humidity and dirt with no brush wouldn't hold the scent for that long back where it was started I don't think.

Have to ask Mike Leonard on this one he hunts NM and would be the same as AZ.
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Postby southwestwalkers » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:58 pm

[quote="treeing walkers"] And for two their non-humidity and dirt with no brush wouldn't hold the scent for that long back where it was started I don't think.

I think the guy is reaching with the 20 miles and all but trust me from about July 4th to about the first week in Sept there is plenty of humidity with the monsoons all over NM and AZ. Most think AZ is always a dry desert when there really thinking of the Phoenix or Tucson areas. As far as no brush :?: :?: There are places all over this state that you can't even hike through its so dense with brush and forests where you would think you where in the NW.

Getting back to that guy and the 20 mile stuff its possible especially after a good rain but not likely.......

Just my 2 cents worth and a heads up on AZ and NM :D
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Postby PRED8R » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:54 am

I'VE FREE CASTED MY DOGS A NUMBER OF TIMES 20 MILES PLUS ALONG WITH OTHER GUYS I HUNT WITH, YEAH THEY ARE POOPED BUT THEY WILL DO IT EVEN IN 90 DEGREE TEMPS. I'LL TELL YOU WHAT THUOGH, IN THAT LAST FIVE MILES I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD STRIKE A LION TRACK IF YOU THREW A LIVE LION IN THE MIDDLE OF THEM :lol: THEY ARE PRETTY SPENT BY THEN!
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Postby Bearkiller » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:43 am

I am begining to wonder if we are talking kilometers or miles. 20 miles across country in that rocky country is a LONG ways. I'm not talking about roading dogs. Been there done that, got the blown pads. I'm talking across country. If you're casting your dogs 20 miles I'll drive down there to watch it. 20 miles isn't impossible but ya'll act like its nothing. I agree with the monsoon stuff, its the same here in Utah. I went back and read the ad. It said bare ground not dry. Maybe it was after a rain. The lion was definately wet. I assumed blood though since the dogs look neither tired or wet. he says his 6 month old pups have been treeing cats since 8 weeks old. I've had quite a few 8 week old pups. Never saw one do anything but eat and poop. Again, I can see driving 20 miles around on roads to the dogs but not across country. I lived in Washington, I hunted there. I roaded a good dog that was in good shape being hunted 5 nights a week 3 times up the long rail road grade in the promised lands. Its seemed like it was 50 miles from one end to the other, it was 7. My dog was TIRED. Thats 21 miles. the man I was hunting with who had good dogs, his dogs were in the truck. They were done after one trip. It was a cold rainy night and I believe we caught 5 coons that night so there was some extra races but nothing long at all.
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Postby pete richardson » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:03 pm

since ive been using a gps -- runs have got shorter- :) what i used to think was miles can be a fraction of a mile lol was hunting in maine once and it was 70 miles to a chipper we could hear running--30 out 10 on tar and 30 back in -maybe a mile or 2 thru woods -we caught dogs when they crossed road rather than take a chance on haveing to drive around - or drive around and back a few times-- --lol - i hate to cross a good road , walking to dogs lol
once in a very great while ive seen bear just run a straight line --wow they can rack some miles up-- -im glad it doesnt happen often -ive had 2 long fast races this year 8 and 9 hours--not walking---running-

if dogs ran 8 or 10 mph --think how far they ran -- anytime i could hear them they were running hard -which was most the day -one they ran bout 7 miles the last hour -- and treed- that was a shock - :) the other one they didnt go 3 miles from start at any time - didnt tree either - lol


i never run any lions-- no clue
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Postby Mike Leonard » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:02 pm

I will say a bit on this. first off let me preface my comments with this. I know Weldon and have hunted with him. Although this was some years ago he came to my place and stayed a few days and hunted. The walker dogs he had then were as fine a pack of cold nosed , hard working lion dogs as a guy could ask for. They also were beautiful to look at, handled like a dream, and had tremendous drive and determination. I was very much impressed with them. Weldon was a lot younger then but he was really in top condition, very health minded, and could cover the country. He is also one of the most remarkable trick shots I have ever seen. I handed him a new revolver I had just bought, and he had never fired a 32 H&R Magnum before or handled a Ruger Bisley model. He held it in his hand, closed his eyes and hefted it a minute, and then said throw somthing. I threw a tin can up and he shot it out of the air and the riddled it with bullets when it hit the ground. He told me he had a daughter that could do the same thing and I beleive him.Anyway I will say if he still has the same type dogs he had then, I wouldn't doubt if they would take a bad track and go 20 on it,because i never saw them stop on a track regardless of how bad it was.

20 miles is a long way, and nearly impossible to fathom as the crow flies if the country is broken up badly at all but very possible.

Several years ago I left the trailer just at daylight on a big traveling tom track. I had three friends mounted riding with me. Two of these guys were from Michigan and they brought their own horses and dogs. This track was pretty cold, and only my old dogs, Booger, Kate, and Josie could handle it, so we boxed the younger dogs back and decided we would just follow the three and see what happened. Well this cat went on and on and on. Steady slow deliberate trailing. Some bare ground, some frozen ice, and a little old snow under the trees on the north slopes that helped them make better time.The miles rolled by and this was pretty much roadless or blocked road areas where only foot or horse travel is permitted. Well noon comes and goes and we are still riding to stay up with the dogs or at least keep them in hearing. When you are riding sometime you have to negotiate around canyons and cuts that are unsafe to take a saddle animal into. About the time you would think the dogs were going to jump the cat out of a bluff or rock pile they would make a loss and take up some time and then recover and go out, and on we rode. Finally just past mid afternoon we rode up on a big ridge and the dogs dropped down below us and really fired up. I said well boys either we catch him here or we call off the dogs and head back because they are getting ready to cross into a restricted Indian Reservation. These poor guys from Michagan were about give out already, and we had to ride all the way back out. Well the dogs didn't jump him and kept trailing towards the res line. I had to do some fast riding and climbing but I got them shut down finally. Well I got back to the other three and said we better head out it will be dark thirty before we get there. One one of them asked me how far we had come. My GPS showed the truck 12 miles away as the crow flies, but with all the twisting and turning and cutting around I am sure a conservative number would have been 20 miles. Riding back we took a more direct path and shortened it some by I would guess it was a 35 mile horseback ride that day. Now how far did those hounds travel on that track. Well if we went 20 after them, I would guess they went 30 at least. So it is very possible. Could Weldon's walkers trailed with my dogs that day? Well if he had the ones with him he had when he came to my house years back, yes indeed! In fact I think they just might have left my old potlickers wondering which way they went....LOL!
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Postby Buddyw » Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:33 pm

Mike, Pete,

Nice post..

I don't have much experience, and 0 experience in the Dry Desert. Kinda wishing I would have kept my mouth shut on this one!! Guess you just hear too many stories and bragging from those who can't. you actually forget there are a handfull of those that can.

No arguing here that I'm in the Can't camp.. :wink:
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Postby kdrchuck » Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:43 pm

I love reading Mike Leonard's posts.
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Postby Grzyadms4x4 » Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:59 pm

I too have seen the ad that everyone is talking about. When I first got started hunting with hound I thought this guy was full of it. But after being in the sport for a little while now, I can see that it is possible. Especially in some of the areas in AZ. We have everything from deep, rugged canyons to flat prairie land as far as the eye can see, so it is definitely possible that a race could go that long and even longer.

I spoke with a guy once that said he had hunted with him and he said that his dogs sucked and so on,Mike is the third person that I have heard say that they have had good experiences with him and his dogs. So , I would have to say that they guy is telling the truth. Just about everyone here has probably exaggerated a little bit, and that's just b.s.ing with your friends, but he is trying to sell his pups so of course he is going to say this. Is every one of his pups going to be able to trail that far, no. But not every pup from every litter turns out. I'll tell you one thing though. Next time I do need a pup i'll probably give him or Mike a call!
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Postby Mike Leonard » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:27 pm

Not a problem folks and Buddy you are a good person. Listen ? Hear that?
that is the wind of knowledge that blows over all of as as we walk this rocky trail of life. Sometimes we hear it and stop to look, other times we are just to busy or caught up in our day to day business to pay much attention. I am more guilty of that than anyone I know.

Elbert Vaughn, Warren Haslour, James Merchant, Joe House , John Monroe, Bob Marosok, Lee Roy Penny, Berton Oney, Fred Moran, John Wicke, Ed Abel, Fred Smith, Guy Ormiston,Mr. Weems, Leroy Haug, Larry Nabors, Oliver T Smith, and so many more including the great cur and fiest breeders have put a lifetime into these dogs and expereince takes a lot of time. Just because you are a successful hunter doesn't make you a breeder of top hounds. You may hit on a cross and some one generation wonders but guys like old Weldon have done their homework, and paid in dog food and boot leather. He is a little up in years, but still hunting every year, mostly in Utah now, but I think he would be willing to show anybody interested in his dogs that they will hunt.

Oh by the way I didn't forget Lester Nance I just saved old Lest for last. Quote: I don't breed for the length of their ears, I breed for what is between them... Oh Yeah Lester was a hunter and a breeder... Al Womack : Quote I do my culling in the woods before I breed, that really ups the odds... Oh Yeah, Uncle Al was a hunter in the puckerbrush and a breeder of hounds.


Thanks folks for listening to my ramblings. Now let's just load em up and go listen to do their thing... Whooooooop! Look for em Blue!
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Postby Emily » Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:38 am

That was a great read!


Just to add my ignorant two cents...
I have a potlicking housedog who is not a great hunter but he loves to road. I often take him for strolls in the small mountains we have here in the Catskills. If I do a five mile hike (ten miles round trip) up one of our small peaks, my worn out knees stiffen up. My potlicker is probably covering 3X as much ground, and he always wants to road home. One of my favorite views is up a five mile trail that starts exactly 12 miles from home. I sometimes let him run home in front of the Jeep, and he averages between ten and twenty miles an hour, occasionally more going down hill, plus he takes detours to investigate interesting smells, including steep ones into a river gorge that runs next to the road. When he gets home, he sleeps an hour, then is good to go again. Now my Clamour dog gets lots of exercise and is in his prime. But, twenty miles is nothing to him, ten below zero or 85 and humid. [He does move slower in the summer, and stops to drink more often.]
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