From the UK

Tell us a little about you and your hounds.
Vet Jon
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From the UK

Postby Vet Jon » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:34 pm

Hello,

I'm Jon from England. On here to learn about your hounds and what you do, along with an obsession with your lions.
I've 25 years experience working with dogs, and I've been a veterinary surgeon for 16 years, so any advice I can give on any medical or surgical issues - I'd be pleased to help, and interested in the differences to home.

Best wishes,

Jon
BAR BAR 2
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Re: From the UK

Postby BAR BAR 2 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:24 pm

Hi, Jon, and welcome to the board. I would be interested in hearing about how people hunt with hounds over there. Are there still a few who pursue fox?



Tex
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Vet Jon
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Re: From the UK

Postby Vet Jon » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:08 am

Hi Tex,
Hunting with hounds has been illegal in the UK since 2004. The tradition is kept alive with drag hunting where packs of foxhounds follow artificial trails laid by man.
There has been talk about repeal of the laws but there is a lot of opposition. There has been many allegations of illegal hunting though.
Mike Leonard
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Re: From the UK

Postby Mike Leonard » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:57 pm

Vet Jon,

Glad to have you on the forum. Some years back I was contacted by a researcher and a reporter for BBC. They had drummed up some funds to try to investigate numerous sighting of black panther type cats in the UK. They sent me a number of photos as well as testimonials from people who claimed to have seen and photographed these cats in the British countryside.
They asked if I would be willing to come over with several of my trained lion hounds and see if I could capture such a beast. It was an exciting thought, and they said they could arrange financing for my trip the transport of dogs and expenses. It would however require a minimum of a month of time. At that time I did not have the luxury of being away for that length of time so I had to decline the offer. I also was a bit skeptical of the photos and testimonials I had received as they could have easily been photo shopped or messed with.

I am not sure if any other hunter went on this adventure but I have heard nothing more about it in years. This would have been pre-2004 more likely late 90's as I recall.

As for surgical issues and such with lion hunting I have had few of these but the most expensive was surgery on a crucial ligament on a fine female hunting dog that was injured on a chase in very rocky country in Idaho. Unfortunately the surgery although somewhat successful left her permanently crippled in that hind leg and for some odd reason perhaps the sedative or amount of it used on her in this complicated procedure she developed epileptic seizures immediately after the process.

I carry a medical kit with me while hunting and this includes a staple gun so if I get a dog tore up by a lion I can patch them up quickly if it is not too bad. In bad rocky a ledge country many times we catch lions in the rocks or on the bluffs or in caves and this is the place that most dogs get tore up. Usually most of the wounds are minor but dogs falling from or getting knocked off the ledges by lions have claimed the life and health of many.

Bear hunters on the other hand spend a lot of money at the vet at times. Bears on the ground are bad and the really good bear dogs that stay in the fight and pull hair stand the chance of some terrible poundings.
MIKE LEONARD
Somewhere out there.............
Vet Jon
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Re: From the UK

Postby Vet Jon » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm

Hi Mike,
That's pretty cool.
I don't think you would have found any big cats in the UK, but it would have been a good trip!
Although there used to be lots kept as pets - older generations remember when leopards were walked down the high street after dark! When a zoo licence was required a lot were released into the wild. So in theory there could be a breeding population hidden away.
I used to think that unlikely, but when I found out leopards can survive on insects and small mammals, it's not so far fetched maybe.
Do you ever get involved with treeing lions so that researchers can dart and collar them?
That's what I'd like to see!
Jon
Mike Leonard
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Re: From the UK

Postby Mike Leonard » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:45 pm

Vet Jon,

No I have not been involved in any formal research studies myself, although I attempted to work with the State and provide some informal study information several years ago. I have numerous friends who have been involved in these studies and they provided me with a volume of parameters for recording. I took this before a formal board and although they thought it would be excellent information they of course being tightly controlled by State and Federal guidelines could not allow such a study. They needed to spend a great deal of public taxpayer's money and hire some bloke with numerous college degrees if they were to embark on such an endeavor.

World renowned big game hunter Brent Sinclair of Alberta has been involved in many captures of not only cougar but jaguar in South America and leopard in Africa could share some excellent information. Brent is an excellent houndsman, and a more informed outdoorsman would be very hard to find. He visits this forum on occasion and provides us with thrilling accounts and excellent factual advice. A great man and a very fine friend I might add.
MIKE LEONARD
Somewhere out there.............
Vet Jon
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Re: From the UK

Postby Vet Jon » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:59 pm

Mike,

I'd love to hear from anyone who uses their dogs for lion research.

I'm enjoying seeing the pictures of the hounds, there's a lot of breeds I'm not familiar with.

Jon
Mike Leonard
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Re: From the UK

Postby Mike Leonard » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:19 pm

Vet Jon,

If you have not read it a wonderful book on this subject is:

Soul Among Lions written by Harley Shaw

Shaw conducted an in-depth study of cougars in Arizona and he has a poignant and passionate way of describing this work. Most studies on cougars are simply charted facts but Shaw gets into the nature of the lion as well as the nature of those who live around and hunt them.

A very enjoyable read and certainly some points to ponder on the subject.

Here is an Amazon link for that fine book.

https://www.amazon.com/Soul-among-Lions ... 0816520844
MIKE LEONARD
Somewhere out there.............
Vet Jon
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Re: From the UK

Postby Vet Jon » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:53 pm

Mike,
Small world.
I recently emailed Dr Shaw asking about the cougar tracking courses he used to be involved in, and received a prompt reply!
As I'm not a hunter, I was looking to find a way to get a glimpse of a lion as a visitor.
His book looks awesome.
Thankyou.
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Re: From the UK

Postby BAR BAR 2 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:11 pm

Jon,
If you are interested in doing some reading, I would suggest that you contact, Dutch Salmon, at High Lonesome Books in, Silver City, New Mexico. He deals in old and/or rare books detailing life in the American West, as well as those telling about the old time predator hunters and houndsmen. Several old and out of print books have been resurrected and he is now reprinting them. I don't have enough money to buy all the books from him that I would like. A person interested in lions, bears and hounds will find a lifetime of reading.

http://www.high-lonesomebooks.com/



Tex
=2
Vet Jon
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Re: From the UK

Postby Vet Jon » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:48 pm

Thankyou Tex, there's a lot to see on that website.
Jeff Eberle
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Re: From the UK

Postby Jeff Eberle » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:14 pm

Vet Jon, I have a litter of 4 that I dewormed at 6 weeks old . Ever since they have had diarrhea was thinking coccidian but the stool has no odor to it. As for the pups they are happy and heathy looking they eat and drink normal and play very hard with each other, even putting on weight . it has been 14 days now with diarrhea . I have been feeding them white bread and white rice along with their dog food. I dewormed them with Happy Jack Liqui-Vict 2x canine anthelmintic suspension. What do you think ?
Get JESUS In Your Life & Your Dog's In The Wood's

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Vet Jon
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Re: From the UK

Postby Vet Jon » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:07 pm

Hi Jeff,
So they're 8 weeks old now? And they were fine for the first 6 weeks?
If they're all affected then I'd be suspicious of an infectious cause - and it might be worth getting your vet to examine a faecal sample for coccidia and possibly send it off for culture, as that would need antibiotics - same for bacterial causes.
Hopefully more serious conditions like parvovirus can be excluded due to the timecourse, and the fact that they are all well.
A lot of diarrhoea seems to be dietary so small bland meals - plain boiled chicken and rice can help a lot of them. But two weeks is too long, stress and dietary upsets should have resolved by now.
The worming liquid would have treated roundworms - was that the first time you did them? Sometimes killing a large worm burden can upset the gut.
I like fenbendazole for roundworms, and that would also rule out giardia as a cause.
It looks like its called safeguard where you live (excuse the lack of local knowledge)
Jon

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