Genetics?

Talk about Big Game Hunting with Dogs
OWZ
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Genetics?

Postby OWZ » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:49 pm

It’s assumed all dogs in this scenario are proven and worth breeding.

If I bred my female back to her father, take a female pup from that litter and breed back again but this Time to her fathers belly brother, would it add/change anything vs breeding back to the father?
Jeff Eberle
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Re: Genetics?

Postby Jeff Eberle » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:08 pm

A few things you may want to add , is this a line of dogs your starting with and if so how tight is it ? 2nd would be what are you trying to accomplish?
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Re: Genetics?

Postby OWZ » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:04 am

Yes a line of terriers that I have, and want to carry on and improve or at least maintain.

From what I know they are not tightly bred,but I have limited knowledge on the history.

These are Hard nose terriers that use their brain, blood trail and are well mannered.
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Re: Genetics?

Postby dwalton » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:28 am

It depends on what you are trying to do. The father and brother my have some of the same genetics but may be totally different types of dogs. If her father is what you are trying to reproduce then breed to father if possible,if not and father and brother have like traits breed to brother. Inbreeding you need like to like to reproduce a dog you are looking for. Faults may show up and maybe the things you want will also. There are a lot of traits that make a supper dog and there are a lot of traits that are in the back ground of any dog. Any thing can happen, A great dog may of happen because of the time he was born and the conditions he was raised and hunted in. I have seen a supper dog bred to his daughter, them to a granddaughter, them to a great granddaughter. The out come was nothing like the male that was trying to be produced. a failure. Only time will tell. Dewey
Jeff Eberle
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Re: Genetics?

Postby Jeff Eberle » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:23 am

The farther you can trace your line back with a honest assessment of the dogs in the line the better. I would try to go back at least 4 generations on the top and bottom side. Some lines of dogs just don’t hold up when breed tight. But I don’t feel father to daughter is that tight , I’ve had a few that turned out really good. Even have a nice female that is from a brother sister cross. It all starts somewhere you’ll never know if you don’t try.
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OWZ
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Re: Genetics?

Postby OWZ » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:03 am

The female I have is an outstanding dog. Her mother was killed so I can’t go that route.
Her Father is one of the best terriers I’ve seen and would want to duplicate him if possible. His belly brother is also a great dog, suicidal perhaps, but has not had the exposure that his brother has had.
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Re: Genetics?

Postby thunderhead » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:04 pm

Pair dogs together that have like traits. Some people pair dogs together that the male is strong in “this” and the female is strong in “that”. They end up with litters that are all over there he board.
The sire and dam both contribute 50% into the puppies. When you pair dog that have like traits you tend to get more uniform litters.
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dwalton
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Re: Genetics?

Postby dwalton » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:56 am

Breeding like to like is a good thing to do to reproduce good dogs. I have breeding dogs for several years to breed a ultimate bobcat dog. That said we all have our on opinion as to what that should be because of where and how we hunt. I hunt the Northwest now mostly in Oregon west and east side both in and out of the snow but have hunted most of the west with dogs that I have raised. I have treed bobcats in about all the conditions you could ask for snow, rain on snow wet snow dry snow 15 below 0 to 90 degrees on bare ground clay soil, sandy soil, brush, deserts high mountains and brush on the coast. I have owned dogs [a few] that could do it all from one extreme to the next from one day to the next. It is hard to to find a dog that can do it all in all conditions catching over a hundred bobcats in a year with a lot of those catches catching cats on the ground. To get the cold trailing being able to run a cold track, not over running it after it gets jumped, making the turns when a bobcat dodges and locating the tree all in one dog does not happen often. I have owned 4 or 5 such dogs in the last 50 years. It is hard to breed like to like with those dogs because one usually never has two of those at one giving time. The traits that it takes to make the ultimate bobcat is far easier found in a pack and almost impossible found by breeding a dog to have it all. The most important rode to that ultimate bobcat dog is the handler that knows what a hound is doing and is able to put the hours into training and find tuning a dog that needs very little help. Think about it and if you get a chance hunt with a top bobcat hunter there are getting more all the time because of the quality of dogs available and some really good young hounds men that choose to run bobcats. Dewey
macedonia mule man
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Re: Genetics?

Postby macedonia mule man » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:12 am

Don’t know what kind of terrier you are using but I raised and sold I don’t know how many southern rat terriers for about 7 years. Never line bred a female. I bred male to female for conformation mostly. Never had anyone come back dissatisfied. Most went for yard dogs. A lot went for squirrel dogs a lot went for tracking deer. Some for hog dogs. Some where back in the day the rat terrier was programmed to be on the watch. I don’t think you could breed that out of them if you stay within the rat terrier breed. The only thing I found is some will start biting in old age when they want to be left alone.
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Re: Genetics?

Postby OWZ » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:33 pm

Thank you for the replies.

The terriers are Fell/Patterdale.
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Re: Genetics?

Postby Goose » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:16 pm

macedonia mule man wrote:Don’t know what kind of terrier you are using but I raised and sold I don’t know how many southern rat terriers for about 7 years. Never line bred a female. I bred male to female for conformation mostly. Never had anyone come back dissatisfied. Most went for yard dogs. A lot went for squirrel dogs a lot went for tracking deer. Some for hog dogs. Some where back in the day the rat terrier was programmed to be on the watch. I don’t think you could breed that out of them if you stay within the rat terrier breed. The only thing I found is some will start biting in old age when they want to be left alone.


Mule man I have a 10 year old rat terrier I got from a man that bred and raised beagle and kept a few rat terriers around, the mother to my male was a gamey little dog but my male has always been a complete DUD, he has never tried to get after any type of game and has never been gamey at all in his entire life, there are piles and piles of squirrels in my yard and he has never acknowledged them, he is an excellent blood trail dog but you had better be on top of him or have a garmin on him bc he will find the deer like its nobodies business and as soon as he lays eyes on it he heads back to the truck, although he is a good "teaser bull" for me, I know one of my female hounds are coming in heat when I find him hanging out down at my dog yard, and that's about the only thing he's actually useful for, heck he doesn't even like to go boat or four wheeler riding, he maybe an exception but the gaminess that terriers are known for is definitely not in him...
macedonia mule man
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Re: Genetics?

Postby macedonia mule man » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:44 am

Goose, he was probably born on the dud phase of the moon.
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Re: Genetics?

Postby dirtdodge » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:26 pm

Mule man, interesting. Dud phase of the moon? Do u breed dogs by moon phases? My dad says his grandpa used to breed all animals according to moon phase but dad doesn't remember any of it.
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Re: Genetics?

Postby Goose » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:59 pm

macedonia mule man wrote:Goose, he was probably born on the dud phase of the moon.


Please give some more insight as to what your talking about here...

Even if it is a sense of sarcasm, lol...
macedonia mule man
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Re: Genetics?

Postby macedonia mule man » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:01 pm

I think breeding by the moon was more of a making sure the female conceived not how the offspring was going to turn out. My grandad did everything according to the moon phase and for his time he was fairly successful with 40 acres and 2 mules and 2 horses and a few plows. He didn’t have a lot of spare time for internet conversation.

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