Looks over Ability

Talk about Big Game Hunting with Dogs
George Streepy
Open Mouth
Open Mouth
Posts: 673
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:39 pm
Location: Washington

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby George Streepy » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:37 pm

Ferjr,

I wouldn't even give him the time of day on that stuff. That is just the arrogant BS I posted about before. Numb Nutts thinks he can look at a photo of a dog and determine its worthiness. That is awesome. I can only dream of being that good some day. For now I will just settle for the cat catching slop I have around here. I like how he is always trying to spark some sort of challenge. Trying to put himself at higher level. Any time he wants to see how his pack of show plotts will hold up to a pack a proven cat minded grade misfits he knows how to get a hold of me. Maybe he can use all those papers he has to light a fire under their asses.

Kordog, Slowandeasy, and Nolte, as well as others, mentioned dogs getting by and bred on their looks alone. That is not a good thing, it is bad for a breed.
Mountainhound
Tight Mouth
Tight Mouth
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:11 pm
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby Mountainhound » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:41 pm

I think there is a differance between an ugly dog and a dog that has poor conformation. Ugly can meen anything from color, or ear lenght, or any number of visual factors which are all personal preferance. But that does not meen that it is comformationally callenged. Also I think that no you don't breed the comformataionally callenged dog but in a heartbeat I would breed a dog or to a dog that was what I want in my hounds, which is putting game in a tree or caught. Now do I like a certain look in a hound course :roll: but am I going to turn my nose up at a hound that knows how to do it's job and does it well? heck no. Like I said in earlier post there are no ugly dogs under the tree. I think to much enfaces (sp) has been placed on a hounds looks. More breeds of dogs have been ruined by the pretty dog syndrom. Perfect example the poodle was origanally breed as a waterfowl hunting dog. Now what is is? It is paraded around in stupid haircuts because some idiot thought they look pretty. The more I go on here I am starting to think I want to breed my own strain of ugly ass dogs that catch game and then no one but a true hunter would want one and they could only get better because no one cares what the hell they look like and breed some pretty dog just because it's pretty. Sorry for the rant will get off my soapbox now.
User avatar
slowandeasy
Babble Mouth
Babble Mouth
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:09 pm
Location: AZ.

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby slowandeasy » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:46 pm

Redwood Coonhounds wrote:Well, I hate to be in the Plott guys corner. But I pick my dogs based on looks/build as pups.... My dogs all come from proven, familiar lines, so I know they all have a good chance of turning out in the woods...

I pick a pup based on looks, build, color, mouth and attitude. If at 6 months old that pup hasn't held together conformationally, I cull it from my breeding program. If it's real bad, or has some sort of defect, I will spay/neuter and place in a hunting home.

Once they make it past that test. Then I hunt the fur off them, and weed them out further from there.

My filter goes like this: Breed, Conformation, Temperment, Brains/Handling, Natural Hunting Ability, Consistancy, and Hunting Style. If I have a dog make it past 2 years old in my yard, you can guarantee it's a damn good dog, and has made it thru the ringer!

Some people will settle for anything. Not here. Just another rigor of trying to find and reproduce top dogs. I still have to walk out to the kennels 7 days a week and look at the dogs, and I sure ain't gonna look at an ugly dog. Hell I could have a whole yard full of ugly mutts that catch game without looking to hard. Where is the fun in that?

The problem is, is people just assume things are a certian way, that it would take too much work, without putting any effort forth. Doesn't mean it isn't possible. I've always been razzed about my "showdogs" from people, that is until I'm pulling my dog off a tree, there best dog couldn't even make.




if it is so easy to get ugly talented hounds, i guess it is also easy to get pretty hounds that are talented. and i guess they are also quite inexpensive, because simply put we should all have them by the yard full. i'm sure this theory holds water. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Cry to the heavens and let slip the dogs of war. For they must feed on the bones of tyranny. In order for men to have freedom and liberty
User avatar
Redwood Coonhounds
Babble Mouth
Babble Mouth
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:57 pm
Location: Utah
Facebook ID: 100000073410597
Location: Utah
Contact:

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby Redwood Coonhounds » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:14 pm

Yeah if 90% of people weren't lazy and settled for just anything, there would be a lot more dogs out there built the way they should be, that hold up like they should, that look like they should, and catch game like they should...

I will not buy another adult dog for ANY reason. I don't care how much better it is. For one I don't have that kind of money, and two, it's not all about bragging rights and killing game. I do this to achive a goal. To start from the bottom and work my way up, on my own, and make the kind of dogs I want. I've got my entire life to spend, and plan on doing so... Seems everyone else is happy buying a dog so they don't have to do any work. I don't see the sense of accomplishment in that.
Cassandra Davis
Redwood's Treeing Walker Coonhounds
& Louisiana Catahoula Leopard Dogs
http://www.RedwoodCoonhounds.net/
https://www.facebook.com/RedwoodKennelsHounds
User avatar
larry
Babble Mouth
Babble Mouth
Posts: 1002
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby larry » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:40 pm

Redwood Coonhounds wrote:Yeah if 90% of people weren't lazy and settled for just anything, there would be a lot more dogs out there built the way they should be, that hold up like they should, that look like they should, and catch game like they should...

I will not buy another adult dog for ANY reason. I don't care how much better it is. For one I don't have that kind of money, and two, it's not all about bragging rights and killing game. I do this to achive a goal. To start from the bottom and work my way up, on my own, and make the kind of dogs I want. I've got my entire life to spend, and plan on doing so... Seems everyone else is happy buying a dog so they don't have to do any work. I don't see the sense of accomplishment in that.

X2
User avatar
slowandeasy
Babble Mouth
Babble Mouth
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:09 pm
Location: AZ.

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby slowandeasy » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:45 pm

Redwood Coonhounds wrote:Yeah if 90% of people weren't lazy and settled for just anything, there would be a lot more dogs out there built the way they should be, that hold up like they should, that look like they should, and catch game like they should...

I will not buy another adult dog for ANY reason. I don't care how much better it is. For one I don't have that kind of money, and two, it's not all about bragging rights and killing game. I do this to achive a goal. To start from the bottom and work my way up, on my own, and make the kind of dogs I want. I've got my entire life to spend, and plan on doing so... Seems everyone else is happy buying a dog so they don't have to do any work. I don't see the sense of accomplishment in that.


glad to see that your in the top ten percent that are not lazy and have all the answers. how is that working out in california as a whole.
Cry to the heavens and let slip the dogs of war. For they must feed on the bones of tyranny. In order for men to have freedom and liberty
coadycurbow
Bawl Mouth
Bawl Mouth
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:35 pm
Location: tx

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby coadycurbow » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:31 pm

Nolte wrote:I think more junk dogs have been bred over their "looks" or "papers" than ability by a loooong shot. If guys only bred for dogs that got it done, we then could sort out for ones that we thought were looked good. But if that happened it would be tough for a guy to cut a track with all the game being whacked.

Everybody likes a sharp looking dog, but I've always got an empty chain for one that can get it done. If it can catch a track that my other dogs can't, it's worth it for me to keep around if it's the right track.



Amen, I don't have an empty chain, but I'll make one empty if I can find an ugly dog that can find and bay more game than the dogs I'm feeding now. I don't care if he is pink and purple polka dotted if he will go to a hog.
Coady Curbow
(936) 615-0235
User avatar
Cooch
Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:16 am
Location: New South Wales , Australia

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby Cooch » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:32 am

sheimer wrote:Cooch, I probably would not breed to her, she's a little short on that one end. :wink:

Scott


Pretend I don't get it.

That's a pure Beagle bitch that is max allowable height for the breed.

What else could you be meaning?
Majestic Tree Hound
Open Mouth
Open Mouth
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:50 pm
Location: Virginia
Location: New Market, Va. - Rochingham Co.

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby Majestic Tree Hound » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:00 pm

Ability - Conformation - Genetics

"MUST be" Maintained to Produce a Hound with the Endurace to Run Day in and Day out ..

Even the Angle of the Pasturn is so Important ..

This is a Show Hound that I worked up for some one .. But it shows Flaws as well as Atrabutes of a Hound that can Move Properly with out Breaking Down .

I have done Quite a Few Write Ups on Hounds and I know the Angles and Proportionate Heights that are required ..

As in this Hound the Pasturn is Too Stright to Take a Pounding and He would be lame after a few days of Work ..

His lung Capacity is Way to Small to get enough O2 to the Mussels..





Image

What a Great looking Hound !! How Old is He ???

First Thing, His Profile of Neck and Head is Perfect !! Very Well Balanced .. Nose to Stop is Equal to the Stop to "Top Knot" or Back of Skull. Neck is in Proportion to His Head and Body .. His Ear Are Great and the point of the Attachment is Where a "Hound" Should be .. Center to or just below the Eye .. And very proportionate in length ..

His Front to Rear Center Line is very nice and is Balanced well.

His Front Shoulders have a very nice 90^ Angle and meets at at the Center of his Wither.

He need some Exercise and little abit of Mussel Mass in the Shoulders and Hind Quarters

His ForeLegs are Perfect in height .. meaning that the Distance form his Fetlock to the base line is equal to 2/3 the distance from his Fetlock to the Center line of his Elbow ..

Only thing is He needs more Angulation in the Pasturn .. I Really like about 15^ to 18 ^ .. Lets say if you were to draw a Stright line down the Center of the Front leg .. The #5 Pad the Big one should be about 1/2 " in front of that line.. "If That Makes Any Since" LOL

Chest is Alittle Small .. Lungs need to be just a little Lower and abit further back towards his mid line .. And maybe abit in front of his Shoulder .. Should Show a small Rounded appearance in front of the Shoulder line ..

His Top Line is Great and carries a perfect Arch in the loin .. Not to Much and Not to Little !!

His Hips and Rear are very nice with the Exception of the above Note "Some more Mussel Mass and Diffinition"

His Rear Angulation is Perfect and very good Measurements on his Rear Pasturn to the Knee ..

Run the Heck out of Him !!!! And he should beat most of anything he's put up against !!!



Here is another Walker I did
As you can see He's Too High in the Front and It effects his Ballance
you Should be able to Draw a Plum Horz. line from the Center of the Elbow to the Center line of the Knee Joint

Image

This Photo Here Show the Plum Horz line

Image



As For Ears !!!!!! The Ears are a HUGE Portion of a Hound !! The Main Cooling of the Blood Before it goes to the Brain circulates thru the Ear .. So the Ears Should be Proportionate to the Size of the Hound .. The Hotter Climents Require Over Proporionate Ears to Cool the Blood..

The ONLY Difference Between a Fine Endurance Horse and a Fine Hound Should be the EARS and NOSE .. A Horse Sweats to Cool their Blood
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!
Image
Salt Lick Kennels
http://home.earthlink.net/~landjmorrow/saltlickkennels/
Bawling Tree Kennels
http://www.bawlingtreekennel.com
Sunrise Outfitting
http://www.sunriseoutfitting.com/
Canine Training Academy - Co.
http://www.caninetrainingacademy.com/
The Mara Conservancy - Kenya Africa
http://www.maratriangle.org/
Nolte
Open Mouth
Open Mouth
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:41 am
Location: WI

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby Nolte » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:55 pm

Jeez, who knew you could tell endurance and stamina by taking a ruler and drawing some lines through a picture. Here I thought a guy had to put some miles/days on a dog to figure that out. This stuff is all to technical to me.

Find a dog that does it the best in your area and get something from him/her. It might not work out, but your chances are better. If that doens't work find something from someplace else that is working and see if that works out for you. There isn't any magic formula, besides time and tracks.
George Streepy
Open Mouth
Open Mouth
Posts: 673
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:39 pm
Location: Washington

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby George Streepy » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:05 pm

Yep, those dogs are nice to look at. You can draw all the lines you want, I just prefer to hunt them. I have a beautiful little female here than doesn't conform to anything. Small ears, pointy nose, high front shoulders, sloping hind end, basically everything that some of you would cull for. She is plenty fast, and can run all day. Never wears out. I am fairly certain it would be tough to find a dog that can run longer than her. She is small built dog that if anything reminds me of a coyote. I like the way she is built, and if her conformation is not right. Maybe we should rethink what good conformation is. I like the looks of a well built hound, I would have to say I prefer them over ugly ones for sure. But if your into hunting, and not showing dogs, breed the best to the best and let nature take its course. Just because people have bred for a certain build doesn't mean it is the only body structure that is going to produce. It doesn't make that the best build, just what we have come to expect. I will keep the uglies and pretty ones, and I will breed a dog even if it doesn't conform to what a hound "should" look like. Keep in mind I only breed the best I have. It has nothing to do with being lazy.
Majestic Tree Hound
Open Mouth
Open Mouth
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:50 pm
Location: Virginia
Location: New Market, Va. - Rochingham Co.

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby Majestic Tree Hound » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:17 pm

But they Don't Need to Built like a Sports Car to Be Correct in their Build ..

Heres a 1940 Photo of "Scout" Bill Greens Hound .. He's a Big Hound but has all the Proper Lines and the flex in the pasteur ..
No Post Leg .. This hound could pound out tracks for Days !!

Image


Every Breeding I make Ability and Conformation Must be Equal ..

Their is never a Hound thats "SO GOOD" that you must Sacerfice Conformation/Genetics For .. Theirs Lots of Hounds That Have Both to Breed with..

This is why I Breed to "Sheltons Hammer" .. He was the 3rd. best hound in the World Hunt last year but also at 9-1/2 years old The Very Best Built Hound with the Highest Ability !! 98% of the Hunts he Treed Coon that the Other Hound Never knew was their .. Lots of Nose

I took a weekend and traveled to TN. and Hunted with Him Side by Side with the My Bitch .. And Saw Everything that I wanted in the Cross .. Done Deal

Image
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!
Image
Salt Lick Kennels
http://home.earthlink.net/~landjmorrow/saltlickkennels/
Bawling Tree Kennels
http://www.bawlingtreekennel.com
Sunrise Outfitting
http://www.sunriseoutfitting.com/
Canine Training Academy - Co.
http://www.caninetrainingacademy.com/
The Mara Conservancy - Kenya Africa
http://www.maratriangle.org/
bluewalkerlionhound
Silent Mouth
Silent Mouth
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: utah
Location: Hyde Park Utah

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby bluewalkerlionhound » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:48 pm

Just trying to check these angles with you guys.?everything looks great to me but just checkin. Thanks.
Attachments
Pimp mod.JPG
Last edited by bluewalkerlionhound on Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Majestic Tree Hound
Open Mouth
Open Mouth
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:50 pm
Location: Virginia
Location: New Market, Va. - Rochingham Co.

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby Majestic Tree Hound » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:50 pm

Nolte wrote:Jeez, who knew you could tell endurance and stamina by taking a ruler and drawing some lines through a picture. Here I thought a guy had to put some miles/days on a dog to figure that out. This stuff is all to technical to me.



These Lines have been drawn on Hounds since the 1500s .. Every Running Proformence Breed of Hound were Bred to these Requirements and are still bred this way today by Breeders that Care ..

Its Only in the US in the past 40 years that ALL Standards and Sound Breeding have Been Thrown Right Out the Widow for the Almitty "Ability" they think they May have ..
Steve Morrow "Saltlick Majestic's"
"Never Have Hounds Or Kids And You Won't Get Your Heart Broke"!!
Image
Salt Lick Kennels
http://home.earthlink.net/~landjmorrow/saltlickkennels/
Bawling Tree Kennels
http://www.bawlingtreekennel.com
Sunrise Outfitting
http://www.sunriseoutfitting.com/
Canine Training Academy - Co.
http://www.caninetrainingacademy.com/
The Mara Conservancy - Kenya Africa
http://www.maratriangle.org/
twist
Babble Mouth
Babble Mouth
Posts: 1982
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:28 pm
Facebook ID: 0
Location: Columbus, Mt.

Re: Looks over Ability

Postby twist » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:01 pm

First off I want to say I like a nice looking hound that gets the job done with style as well as any one but my question was (I am not saying you cant have the best of both worlds but if not which one is more important LOOKS or ABILITY?) So what this meens is you cant have both you have to choose just one! This was ment for the hunting minded side of the hound world as I no a not so perfect conformation hound will never be a bench champion but I sure never new that because a hound has perfect conformation it would be able to beat most anything it is put up against! What if it has no HUNT ABILITY? If all of us that have read this post are TRUE HUNTERS is there really any other answer than ABILITY? later, Andy
The home of TOPPER AGAIN bred biggame hounds.

Return to “Big Game Hunting With Dogs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests