Breeding advise

[Teto]

I have a walker female bear hound, Huff bred, that I plan on breeding soon. I have narrowed it down to a couple males. Not sure which way to go.

My female has a good cold nose. She hunts hard. She is our start dog. She is not a cut dog, she has to figure it out for herself. She will stick on a bear and has some scars from fighting bear but she's not a jump on the bears @$$ kinda dog. She weighs 55lbs, medium build. Mostly white with black ticking, some brown.

Male # 1 has a real cold nose, he will cut in to the pack. He is used as a start dog also. He's 4 years old and so far has cost his owner about 6 grand in vet bills. This dog has treed 3 bear on his own, his first solo was at 2 years old. He is Bawley walker bred. 71 lbs running weight, big headed and tri colored.

Male #2 had a medium nose, will start a bear, will cut in, is a good pack dog. Runs at the front of the pack most of time unless he's beat up. He's got grit but is not suicidal. Weight about 50 lbs. Huff and Yakin river breeding.

I would really like some dogs that are gritty but not extremely gritty, if you know what I mean. I thought maybe the combination of my female and Male #1 might produce what I am looking for.

Male # 2 sounds like a real nice dog also but would like to keep the nose as cold as possible.

I am fairly new to this bear hound breeding. Have had coon hounds and Blackmouth curs for the last 27 years. I know how to breed a good squirrel and coon dog but could use a litle help on this one.

What do you guys think? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

[cheat river kennels]

i could be wrong but something i've noticed is that two great dogs or even one power house dog and one pack dog can still make a shitty bunch of pups. bloodline has alot to do with it. sometimes two bloodlines won't mix very well. seen a great coon dog (female)and bear dog (male) bred that not one single pup was worth a damn. twice now my cousin has tried to get pups from his male. just not happening. he doesn't throw good pups. but its just my opinion.

[Teto]

I do understand that not every dog will throw good pups. And I do understand the whole bloodline thing. I'm willing to take a gamble here and see what I get.

My female has had a litter and the pups turned out well. Male # 2 has sired a litter and that litter are turning out well. I know there's no guarantee on two good dogs throwing good pups. But my question to all of you is which male would you choose to breed to get the grit and keep the cold nose? I guess I"m looking for the total package, cold nose, gritty but not suicidal, good pack & cut dog.

[live to hunt]

Breed her to both males then keep them all and cull as you go. You could also DNA the pups if you wanted to know which male they are out of? The pups will show you who the best cross to fit your needs and style of hunting was. Then you can cross again in the future to either male or a differant one.

[chris1v]

i agree with Live to hunt
breed with both males, it will save a lot of time. DNA test will only cost you $45 bucks each dog. You can order the DNA kits from UKC.

[Teto]

Thanks guys. That thought never even crossed my mind. I guess I need think outside the box once in a while.

[kordog]

doesnt sound like you could go wrong either way. breeding to dog number 2 which is also huff maybe somewhat more predictable as to what your going to get . dog one sounds like he should be bred to before the option is no longer available with those kind of vet bills. i guess i would ask myself if the stud im going to breed to was the only dog you had would you catch bear consistantly and go from there.

[pegleg]

To me there's a good deal to a hound. I need to like a dog in many ways besides what its like during a hunt. Most traits are linked one way or another genetically. I would spend as much time around them hunting and otherwise. Some dogs just are more pleasant to own then others and this is a huge consideration for me. I hunt pretty frequently but spend most every day with or around my hounds so if one has some behavior or trait I find annoying it would have to be better then the average of my dogs to stay. And Way better to be bred. This is just my opinion and not everyone likes the same type of hound but I figure we ask a good deal from them performance wise so why settle for less at home or travel,camp , etc. I've owned or hunted with hounds trained by others that would catch a lion right beside many but where so difficult and set in there ways handling them was a trial. Chewing and barking are behaviors that are passed on genetically and after rewiring a truck or trailer a few times its something I avoid. I can't tell you which hound is your best choice for you. But I can say if your not overwhelmingly impressed by a hound its easier to just skip the breeding then raise a bunch of pups and hoping one or two maybe the kind your looking for.

[Mike Leonard]

Teto.

I don't know for sure about bear dogs these days but i use to hunt bear a lot and if i still was hunting them i would beat a path to male #1 and breed. cold nose, fast, and grit. In my opinion you can't get too much grit in a bear dogs but you have to manange the grit. This means you can't have one king kong and a bunch of others running behind like a cheerleading squad because that is where king kong gets messed up. He should be able to inspire other dogs to get in close and put the pressure on when they get there but he most likley is so fast he is getting there way before the rest of the dogs. Breed to him and start adding some of his speedy kids to the pack and things willl likley get better and the vet bill will go down.



Just my opinion

[Big N' Blue]

Mike, you always come up with good answers. You must be an Old Timer!! LOL

[Mike Leonard]

Takes one to know one. LOL!

[blackpaws]

i think a huge part in bear catching is haveing dogs pack up and run together. like Mike said, if you have one dog getting to the bear and catching it way before the others can physically get there you are in for some trouble if that dog has real grit. the best results i have personally had running bear in the terrain that i hunt was to put a couple dogs down to start the bear. then add some more when they got close or crossed a road or trail. then they should be packed up fairly good if they all have the same speed. if 1 dog is consistantly faster than the other 5, you need to get 5 faster dogs. i have never tried but i have seen others that have tried keeping a litter and haveing them hopefully run as a pack. not all of them turn out to be bear dogs but if you have dogs with the same speed your chances of them catching the bear together go up and more time s than not, so do the bear.

[Nolte]

I think these guys have about got the situation covered.

The only thing I might add is to look at the brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles of the two dogs. If Dog 1 is the one lone real good dog in it's family then your odds might be better with dog 2 if all it's siblings/relation are good also. The more good dogs you can get in the mix, the better your chances should be.

While I agree with blackpaws on having a pack with similiar speed work the bear together, any good bear dog is going to get soloed out at some point. If a dog can stick with that tough bear until it can get help, it's a keeper. It's a real knack for a dog to learn to work a tougher bear solo and stay unhurt. Now if that dog is filthy cold, you've reall got something. I'll gladly give up speed to have those two qualities. I also like to have a dog that will stick in after it's been clipped. I don't expect it if it's really beat up but it should stay in if it's a minor deal.

I really like speed in a bear dog, but many times it is a little un-needed if you are targeting big bear. While those bear usually wander all over the country, they generally aren't flying around after they are jumped. They just sort of bounce around moving bay ups. Most dogs can keep up with or catch to that IF they want to. That is a big IF though.

[Mike Leonard]

Super advice there Nolte! Are you an old timer too? LOL!

It is sort of funny in our country where feed is usually pretty scarce until you get an acorn or berry crop ripened up. these bear stay pretty fit and lean till late and then they really move on the feed hard and just stay there. If it is very localized the great white hunters will find it and there wil lbe a bear slaughter. But early in the season these guys just seem to have a terrible time catching up to the bears. Out of shaspe dogs, and slim fit bears. Once their dogs toughen a bit and they bears lard up a bit things get better for the hunters and worse for the bears.

Some of these old time bear riggers around here know the country so well and they study and know when they feed hits its peak and swoop down on them like a dark cloud. Sort of the story of a lot of western or southwerstern bear hunting anyway. ( FEAST OR FAMINE)

[Teto]

Thank you all for your advice and opinions. I've really enjoyed this read.