Feet - what's the issue ?

[Nicole Stark]

Hello:

I've been perusing the forum for odds and ends and have noticed quite a number of comments about bad feet.

How do you guys define bad feet? A frame of reference I have of my own is a number of my dogs - I'll put it out of a hunting context just for the purposes of commenting on my experience with bad feet - some have run so fast and hard they've ripped quarter size or bigger sections off their pads and, obviously turned up lame for maybe 2-3 days..

Would someone fill me in on this topic? I'm just trying to understand what exactly it means, how it shows up, and what's the issue with the dog when bad feet are involved. Is this something known to be a problem in certain lines?

[Mike Leonard]

Nicole,

I believe this issue has been discussed at length on the forum numerous times. A search of the archives will probably reveal a great deal of knowledge that has been shared.

And yes feet are a HUGE issue, and one that has been overlooked by too many breeders. A hound can have all the elements wrapped up in one bag of hide and hair, brains, nose, speed, grit, but if they have no feet under them to keep it going and going they are still sadly lacking for all but the occasional hunter.

[Nicole Stark]

Alright. Thanks for the reply. Just a side note about why i posted the question at all.

This forum isn't active like it used to be. Times and attitudes change, so does the skill level and interest of the membership. If I didn't want to have conversations about topics relating to hounds and just wanted to do what most folks do now a days, which is finger (beep) their phones all day long, I wouldn't have bothered joining the forum and just could have searched the archives and drawn my own conclusions from the onset.

Not entirely ideal since I've never owned a hound. Fair enough though…ask and ye shall receive. To the archives I go.

[BAR BAR 2]

Like Mike said, without good feet, it doesn't matter what attributes a hound has. Just like with a horse, you need to start at the ground and go up. If you will look at the breed standards for all of the UKC breeds, they will say that a tight 'cat foot' is desired. This is because a platter footed hound will break down if hunted hard. A loose sloppy foot has very little structural integrity and cannot hold up on hard and varied terrain. With the prominence of the coonhound bloodlines from back east, where the ground is more forgiving, many lines of hounds have lost the foot. In many regions of the country you can get by with less foot, but out west it is something that can't be overlooked.


Tex

[SASS]

When choosing a pup I always look at their feet. I want a cat footed pup and not a coon footed one. I have been told by people I trust they tend to hold up better to day in and day out running.

[Nicole Stark]

SASS and BAR BAR 2 my experience with what I said above about bad feet mirrors what you guys said (durability differs greatly). The tight footed vs the hare or loose foot, the latter has not showed to stand up to time on ground, fast and hard or slow and varying paced.

I still plan on doing what Mike asked but I genuinely appreciate the replies.

[SASS]

Its a fairly new thing for me to consider because when I had gamebred APBT's having splayed (coon) footed dogs did not really matter because we only used them for weight pulling or short agility exercises. But with hounds and hunting a dog can put in 20+ miles running on differing terrains in one hunt, and like Mike previously mentioned doesn't matter how great the dog hunts if he can't go hunting.

[Mike Leonard]

SASS,

Correct although dogs like mine may put on 20-30 miles before they ever start trailing because they are free cast hunted off horseback. Many of todays hound are carried in a truck and pulled out and put on a track, they still have to be tough but once you see what traditionally hunted hounds have to endure you will know why feet are really important.

You ride a horse or mule thru bad country maybe even on a short 10 mile circle you can bet if they are hard questing hunting dogs they will put on three times that distance or more, and then say they hit a track and go off and trail for hours and hours and still don't catch, what are you going to come back with tomorrow?

If they are tough footed they may be a little wincey to start with but they will blow it off, but it they are thin white footed even if they are cat footed dogs they will be standing around holding their feet up like a chicken on a hotplate, and you hunt is over.

Like old Tex from the Bar 2 said black footed horses and hounds. you can shoe a horse but a black foot will hold a shoe while a shelly white foot will sluff it off in rocky country, dogs on the other hand better have thick black feet and even then you have to toughen them with time.

As old Smoke Emmet use to say; a hound ain't ready to go lion hunting unless you can strike and light a kitchen match off his foot.

[JTG]

In Texas, where everything sticks you, tough feet are a must. I seen hounds shut down and crawl back to the trailer and other hounds on the same hunt did not notice. It takes years to breed good feet.

And yes, some lines have bad feet and it's almost impossible to fix.

[pegleg]

Theres different types of foot problems you might encounter. But like mike said our dogs cover a lot more country then you expect. I know with garmins ability to track this distance it has made me realize i wasnt very accurrate in my distance guestimations before. And it only makes sense . if a hound is out for ten or twelve hours he just has to be doing more then forty miles unless its laid up somewhere. I know the true mileage a hound can travel on a busy day is much higher. Ive also revised what i consider in normal range for game to travel once jumped.
Some breeds and lines have trashy feet and theres nothing you can do to improve them. A nice tight foot with high webbing and thick rubbery pads. Takes the abuse and mileage much better. It is odd how difficult it is to breed good feet back into hounds once poor feet show up. I dont discount slightly oval feet if everything else is sound. As it doesnt seem related to splayed feet or thin pads. Stil if everyone chose tight round feet with good pads it might weed all the poor feet out. Theres two breeds i blame the most for the issues. But instead of causing a arguement we will agree certain feet are no good.

[Nicole Stark]

In reading the responses it's hard for me to understand why any hunter/breeder would compromise the literal foundation of their dogs by breeding anything other than what is optimal.

[pegleg]

Well it is simple. We have big egos and no patience. So if the two hardest hunting dogs of the dozen or so you hunt with have poor feet or conformation it gets overlooked and like i pointed out it can be hell to breed out once its established. But some terrain just wont let you run dogs with weak feet .

[JTG]

[Nicole Stark]

I am glad I asked the question I did. What you said gives me something to consider as I eventually plan on changing where I live and what I do by a fair bit. It might just involve a daily hunting/gathering set up.

The dog (not hound) I have now thats a pad ripper does it when I am running her on with the ATV. She likes to run trails fast and hard. She'll bite you if you stay still too long. I have no idea how fast an average dog runs but she rips them off when she runs closer to about 32-34 mph.

[pegleg]

Speed as a bit to do with it. However only on a scale mileage and terrain will lower the speed required substantially. But like was said hunt your dogs day in and out for a month and you will learn more about your dogs then hunting weekends for years. I know most people dont have the time to do this but theres certain things you should make a effort to evaluate in your dogs before breeding them.
Alot of things you hear about being pushed as important are only part of a hound.
And with more people using vehicles to transport dogs endurance and durability arent rated as high anymore. Just as a pet peave horses arent nearly as sound or durable as they should be either.