Split Race

Talk about Big Game Hunting with Dogs
al baldwin
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Re: Split Race

Postby al baldwin » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:39 pm

oneguy828 wrote:Sometimes there is an addition by subtraction.

Taking a dog out of the mix can really help define things. But I would strongly advise you not to trust your dogs but to always question and overanalyze them. Dogs can’t lie but they can do a damn good job of makin a liar out of us!

If you trust them and they are right big whoop. Trust them and they are wrong and you could have the start of many disasters!

All houndsmen should make a copy of this post & read it once a week. Very well stated. Al
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Re: Split Race

Postby scottb » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:26 pm

Lace up your boots, strap on your pack and go with your dogs. If you are relying on your GPS to make finer corrections you are too late and causing confusion. Do not mistake cold nosed for sticky & independent. Sometimes being the pack leader means going with them step for step. They can learn to honor up to silent dogs, you may have to buzz em to get the point across. An 8 month old pup going with other dog(s) and not trashing out is a success even if it doesn't make the race. They're dogs, not robots sometimes it's not perfect. I have learned more & fixed/noticed more problems by going with the dogs than anything else by far. That's great you brought this up
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Re: Split Race

Postby oneguy828 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:00 pm

Seen a person walking into a lose slow a race down quite a bit too. Your presence will pull them back to you. Have even seen a dog false tree in those situations. Don’t think it would’ve happened if dummy A and dummy B “Me” didn’t stand around looking for a track out.

Being able to comprehend what’s happening on your gps, what your hearing and what’s actually happening is hard. And you are going to be wrong, but if your right more than your wrong and you hunt enough + have talented enough dogs it works it self out.

I got to thinking, with all that’s working against you it’s a wonder that you can even make a cat dog. Seems the more experience I get the harder it is to make one. What’s up with that?? Hahaha
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Re: Split Race

Postby scottb » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:19 pm

Dogs will most definitely get thrown off or slick tree if they are not used to you being involved in the hunt... if the only time they see you is at a tree. If they are used to seeing you while trailing they will look to you for support in a tough spot or get their act together since you caught up. GPS is for major correction only since the info is old... 5 sec update is too late for nicking a babbler, etc. good for trashing, backtracking, leaving tree. Only way to learn what they are actually doing is to go/ watch with binos to understand what happening right now. Eventually they can be read by what you hear from them. If a seasoned dog buys a tree or gets distracted b/c I made an appearance I came up short on handling and/or have poorly bred dogs. I finally learned this about 6 yrs ago first hand.
oneguy828
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Re: Split Race

Postby oneguy828 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:36 pm

If a dog is behind on the GPS and barking. I have more than enough time to comprehend what’s happening. And to be honest with however much correction will probably never be a dog I want.

I am glad I started hunting on foot. But I would never go back to that, for many reasons but mainly I want them to work out of those loses and catalog how the did that and build on it year after year so they do not ever depend on me. I just give them a ride to the woods.

I admire the way you hunt and your probably a much more detail oriented handler than me. And might help you train dogs that maybe I would struggle with. But I want a dog to have the odds against them a bit and still succeed. That’s the dogs I want to own.
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Re: Split Race

Postby oneguy828 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:40 pm

Not to mention the time that takes away from me being able to find a second track. It’s much easier to get cats on multiple tracks a day with the GPS. You just have to know how to use it and be honest with data it’s sending you. And your probably right that I wouldn’t be able to understand a lot of that without having some my time on foot with the dogs. But changing nothing but me walking or not walking would be A LOT of tracks! And tracks=experience
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Re: Split Race

Postby scottb » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:08 pm

I follow and agree with ya and believe we are on the same page. Don't jump to conclusions... I'm lazy as all get out and will use the rig & GPS to get on another quicker too, I'm not on foot start to finish as much as I used to be. I think people miss a lot of critical experience by not following the dogs at least a few times. If a handler cannot tell what's going on by sound for most things, they do not have the credentials to correct much by reading the GPS. The way I interpreted the OP it sounded to me like going with the dogs would be a good way to learn.
And for the OP... I hunt 3 right now and 2 of them cold trail silent, they know to pay attention to each others body language. Occasionally they get strung out if they cast too big. Have fun is the main goal
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Re: Split Race

Postby Walkerdirt » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:02 pm

oneguy828 wrote:Sometimes there is an addition by subtraction.

Taking a dog out of the mix can really help define things. But I would strongly advise you not to trust your dogs but to always question and overanalyze them. Dogs can’t lie but they can do a damn good job of makin a liar out of us!

If you trust them and they are right big whoop. Trust them and they are wrong and you could have the start of many disasters!

Copy that. Thanks
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Re: Split Race

Postby Walkerdirt » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:05 pm

scottb wrote:Lace up your boots, strap on your pack and go with your dogs. If you are relying on your GPS to make finer corrections you are too late and causing confusion. Do not mistake cold nosed for sticky & independent. Sometimes being the pack leader means going with them step for step. They can learn to honor up to silent dogs, you may have to buzz em to get the point across. An 8 month old pup going with other dog(s) and not trashing out is a success even if it doesn't make the race. They're dogs, not robots sometimes it's not perfect. I have learned more & fixed/noticed more problems by going with the dogs than anything else by far. That's great you brought this up

I'm all for going with the dogs and run about 20 miles a week with my dogs so its not a matter of being lazy or stuck to the GPS but in this country its thick and I'd have to be on my hands and knees. Also with bobs by the time I get to where the dogs were they are circling back around to were I WAS. I hear you though. Thanks.
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Re: Split Race

Postby dwalton » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:11 pm

I am like Scott I think the best way to find out what happens is to get out there and figure it out on foot. Depending on the breeding most dogs will open more as they get experience on track. I am a bobcat hunter and expect the best out of my dogs but sure have have made them better cold trailers and figuring out a track by walking with them. A good example is hunting the high desert when the dogs trail up on a high cap rock with hard wind the track will be blown out by walking them across to the next rim they can pick up the track again. A time or two and the dogs will go across by themselves. You can also walk the way a cat should go and pick it up aways out across spots that do not hold scent teaching the to cast farther. Bobcats will run the same circle often, a hard lose to pick up. Me to dogs are bad at this but some good smart track dogs will get the track out quick. As far as a pup opening on track it is usually barking from excitement and from chasing dogs ahead. For strait bobcat dogs I want a pup to go with the older dogs and not open, soon you will see him give tail and start opening a few times on the jump at a year or 18 months depending on experience. I want dogs to put all they have in them to run for the lead for a clean track them open when they have it, not opening behind or going to a dog that opens. That trait I feel has been bred out of a lot of tree dogs. Some of the young dogs that I let go because they don't have the track smarts make excellent lion or bears dogs. I have owned some great bobcat dogs which makes the yard stick that I judge a dog by pretty short. Just the way I look at it. Dewey

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