What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Talk about Big Game Hunting with Dogs
lawdawgharris
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What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby lawdawgharris » Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:20 am

So it’s that time of year for me where I don’t get to hunt very much. I hate deer season and the ignorance that accompanies it especially! I was talking to a buddy the other day and it got me to thinking, yes sparks were flying!!! We were talking about different situations that had happened on different hunts and how they got handled or should’ve been handled. Then we were talking about specific dogs and how they were bred and what made them and the family they were out of different from other families. All this got me to thinking about why some people seem to struggle more than others. I didn’t come to one specific answer. I decided that there are a multitude of reasons and that sometimes it can be one little thing and for others it can be just about anything and everything you can think of that keeps them from success. I have a family of dogs that I’ve been raising for while now. I can’t afford to keep a whole bunch of dogs so I am dependent on others to take and hunt pups and even raise their own pups. I place my pups with what I feel are quality people/hunters so that I get to evaluate the dogs myself knowing that they’ve been given an opportunity to turn out like they are supposed to. That means not putting them with someone that won’t hunt them, won’t give them the proper care, or that isn’t smart enough to find their own truck in their own drive way. I always think about the people my mentors referenced when we talked about great dogs/hunters/ breeders etc. I think about how they would tell how they trained, or hunted, or feeding regimens, or how they cared for injured dogs in the field and at home. I thought about how they recognized different things that dogs did and the potential that dogs possess as a species. My father had a passion for game chickens. He admired them on so many levels. His birds always looked like they should’ve been on the cover of a magazine. Their feather was always in good shape, never broken up or ruffled up and always glossy. Their eye was always bright and their heads cherry red because they felt good. They would talk to you when you’d go out to the chicken yard and many times, young chickens or hens running loose would even fly up on your head or shoulder because they were that gentle and spoiled. If one started getting sick he was on top of things doctoring it. Water and feed were always clean and top quality and he would check the weight and body condition of each rooster regularly. If a rooster wasn’t good then it was the rooster and not care or handling he received. We had a conversation about it one day and I told him that hunting dogs were the same as the chickens. Obviously they won’t all turn out, they don’t in nature either only their fate is much more grim. Sometimes it’s a hiccup with Mother Nature that causes them to not turn out and other times it’s the knowledge or the appreciation or even the ethics of the individual hunting or breeding the dogs that causes them to not make it. What is it in your opinion that makes a good dog person/ hunter?


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Renagade Curs
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby Renagade Curs » Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:34 pm

Idk honestly how to explain what a dogman is I know but lack being able to put in words.
I do the same thing I can't to keep a lot of dogs and I have to hunt what I breed too and will always put hunting them first over raising pups out of them. I farm pups out give them to friends I try to give them the absolute best opportunity to be hunted as much as possible with me being able to evaluate the pups progress as much as possible. I've gave pups to people that never made anything the pups were sorry excuses of a dog and a embarrassment to me for having raised it but 9 out of 10 times the pups weren't given the same opportunity their littermates were given as far as time in the woods being hunted like a pup needs to be hunted. I've also given people started pups already doing it like they needed to be done but because they didn't work like their old finished dogs they'd bought they ended up leaving them sit at home on the chain most of the time or the pups rode in the truck or side by side all the time with very little ground time and they never progressed past the point when they left my care or many times went stale and progressed backwards. I've loaned dogs to friends that were finished or what I considered finished and I got them back and they've went backwards I'd have to re-educated them to what was tolerated and what wasn't. Many times more often than not it's not the breeding of the dog it's the opportunity the dog is given. Some people can have dogs their entire life but never understand them or care to understand them the dog is just a tool to accomplish a task.
macedonia mule man
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby macedonia mule man » Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:20 am

Fellows, nobody is as interested in your dogs as you are, so 99 time out of 100 the dogs you give away won’t really turn out because not many two people are wanting the same thing. Even close hunting friends. Hunt what you like ,do the best you can and forget about being a hunting legend.
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby Renagade Curs » Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:47 pm

I'm not trying to be a legend but in order to make a line of dogs even for ones self and to be able to cull and pick through them to pick what needs to be bred to and what doesn't it takes a certain amount of pups out of the litter and litters raised to ever keep certain traits and improve upon the line. It's really hard to do that keeping less than 10 head total so you have to farm them out. I've got people that do care about my line here close to me and in other states as it goes back to other lines that are exceptional. I'm not trying to claim fame or notoriety don't want it anyway. It's nice to be a nameless person on here as opposed to Facebook. I got tired of people hassling me wanting pups or dogs I sold a few if I had to many at times it helped buy some feed and gas money but more often than not it was a hassle.
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby lawdawgharris » Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:14 pm

In many ways you are right mule man. Where I disagree with you is this, I don’t know of a single individual that doesn’t want the very best that they can have. One of the greatest pieces of advice I ever got from a great dog man was to find dogs that excelled in the terrain I would be hunting and the style I would be hunting. It doesn’t take much up stairs to choose a high percentage prospect and a lower percentage prospect. It would be like picking Tom Brady or myself as your QB. I am in no way looking for accolades nor do consider myself a legend. I do know some and I will be the first to tell you that they’ve probably forgotten more than I know. The point of this thread wasn’t to bash ANYONE. It is a simple question, what makes a true dog person/ hunter a true dog person/ hunter? There are some great dogs that have walked this earth. Were they great because someone made them great? I don’t think so myself. I think they were great because they were great combined with the fact that the right individual(s) afforded them the right opportunities. There are also great families of dogs out there. Are they great because of a great dog person or are they just great? I think this form of greatness is very dependent on both, great genetics and a great breeder to be able to carry it on consistently. Many people enjoy hunting dogs. Not all of them catch game with the same success. Some tree a bear every once in a while and others seem to tree multiple bear every trip. It’s the same no matter what game is being hunted. What’s the reason for it? I think there are many variables, but usually the biggest reason is that the hunter doing the most producing is more passionate and understands their dogs and the quarry better, not always but usually. I have seen people buy dogs of certain families and in just a couple of breedings have dogs that were way different than what they originally started with. I have seen people that never had a good dog unless they bought it that way only to ruin it and a short period of time. I have seen people that have hunted for years with dogs and still don’t realize half the capabilities they have and even go so far as to get on to them for doing something that is instinctive to them but the individual doesn’t even realize what’s happening. Something like getting onto a dog that is drifting a track. Because the dog isn’t straddling the track they must’ve been trashing. Dogs that are sounding off in the box being told to shut up because the hunter doesn’t realize that they are rigging game. What makes great dog people/ hunters in y’all’s eyes?


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macedonia mule man
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby macedonia mule man » Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:19 pm

Fellows, dogs that we have now( I’m talking running dogs) have been bred up good enough over the years to the point wher you should be able to randomly pick 15 dogs and hunt them into a pack that is enjoyable. I call enjoyable, a pack that likes to hunt, jump, and run something. As far as cur dogs, I’ve been through about every breed I know of and unless they have come up with something In the last10 yrs. I didn’t see much of a uniform standard. The only standard I saw was they all liked to be your buddy. I never hoghunted so I don’t know what it takes to be a good hog dog. I do know a good hunter can make something out of a pack of most any 15 running dogs. I do know a good hunter can wear out several pair of boots and never make a decent squirrel dog.
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby Renagade Curs » Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:50 am

I've got curs yes but I also have hounds and have always had hounds mostly running Walker and July hounds and many crosses between those 2 breeds. I've owned Goodmans and Triggs I started out with hounds I competed in foxhound field trials and judged and was even master of hounds or co master of hounds at several field trials in the past Mule Man. I don't have any running hounds right now at this time but I do have one treebred hound a Redbone pup she's only the second Redbone I've ever owned but I've owned several Treeing Walkers and Plotts and English dogs. I've owned 1 Black and Tan he was the first tree bred hound I ever owned and he was a sorry one but I got him when I was in the tenth grade maybe even 9th grade. I think he might have been a better dog if I'd been a better treedog hunter at the time but shortly after I got him my younger brother bought a Swamp Rooster bred English pup off our neighbor he got him at 6 months old and by 10 months old he was treeing his own coons while the Black dog was running trash.My brother always wanted to be a dog man because our dad and grandpa was and most of my dad and grandpas friends were to but my brother just never had it in him. He rarely ever hunted that pup it was the same with the running hounds and beagles he's had, I kinda took that pup over he made a dandy I competition hunted him some won a few casts but got out handled by older handlers and didn't do to well in general in the competition coon hunts but as a pleasure dog he was the berries he rigged extremely well he had a big mouth on track and used it on track he had the big dying locate the Swamp Rooster dogs were famous for he'd double and triple and even sometimes quadruple it up before going into a solid steady chop on the tree. The English dog ended up treeing a coon in a cave one late October night when he was 5 or 6 years old and the cave was full of rattlesnakes that had denned for the winter he died from the snakebites. I traded the Black and Tan dog to a local guy for 2 cull beagles and sadly the Black and Tan lived a long life :? the guy broke him off trash I guess and he claimed he made a decent dog the beagles I got from him wouldn't run anything other than a biscuit when you tossed it out. But my point to my rambling is I know hounds as well as Curs and any 15 hound pups I'm going to find maybe 2-3 that are going to suit me I'm very picky I don't just hunt hogs although that's mostly what I've done in the previous decade. But I've always had hounds mostly running bred hounds but always some tree bred hounds also usually at least one. By running bred I mean fox and coyote and deer bred hounds as you get into the southern fox bred running hounds the deer hounds are out of the same dogs. My most recent running hounds I've had were Walker and July cross dogs of more Western breeding most of them would tree but I'm out at the moment I've had several get ran over turning them loose here from my house at night. I had 2 I'd gotten from a friend of mine in western Missouri that were making nice treedogs the male would rig. The female was off Bart Harper's Big Rig dog and a bitch my buddy had called Dart she was off Kelly Bishop's Trojan and Blossom cross. The male was off a dog called Nitro and a bitch called Sandy my buddy had, Sandy was also off Harper's Big Rig. I'm not going to argue with you about the Curs for the most part if you try to buddy up with them they will get extremely lazy as can be but I've some that leave like hounds will hunt with the hounds I had. :beer
macedonia mule man
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby macedonia mule man » Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:25 am

Do you recon the coon died from snakebite also ? Red tick and treeing walker are the only dogs I ever had any luck with on coon. Went out in NM bear hunting and the fellow gave me a big red tick pup off Oney dogs. He could do it all without any help. He was so mean,I couldn’t hunt him with much of anything (BUT) he was the only thing you needed anyway. Me and him had a lot of fun together. He could produce his kind also, the males were bad fighters and good coon dogs. I’ve tried hunting curs and hounds together but never worked for me. The only curs I had much luck with on anything were Blackmouth.
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby Renagade Curs » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:13 pm

Idk honestly and i didn't even see the snakes but could hear them buzzing it wasn't a very big cave opening and I counted at least 19 bites on my dog was a bad night I took him to the vet but he said there wasn't much could be done for him.
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby scrubrunner » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:55 pm

Idk what would be classified as a true dogman.they come in all variations like people in all walks of life. And there are dog men breeders and dog men hunters some are both. Some great hunters shouldn’t be allowed to own dogs because of no better care than they take of them, but they are great hunters because they know dogs.
Some are successful because they are obsessed, putting dogs and hunting above everything else in their life, neglecting family, friends and service to God. I suffer with that one and fight to keep it in check. I am ashamed and embarrassed of some of the things I neglected in my younger years being a dogman. When I was about 25 years old my daddy told me that he would have never taken me hunting the first time if he’d of known that I was going to go at it like I did.
I hope my tombstone says more than “HE WAS A GOOD HOUNDSMAN” because when it’s all said and done, that ain’t sayin much about a feller.
lawdawgharris
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby lawdawgharris » Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:43 am

Lol scrubrunner, I agree about there being different types. To me a great hunter isn’t a true dog man unless he respects and cares proper for the animals. Ethics have to be one of the qualifications of being a TRUE dog man. Most definitely some have a knack for breeding where others don’t. Some have a knack for getting things from dogs when nobody else can. Some have the ability to feed, condition, and tend to the medical needs. And as said some just know what situations to put dogs in to allow them to produce game, when and how to help them. Then there are those that can do all of the above and those that can’t do any of them. For sure there are people that are on different levels. That’s how legends come to be. One great dog might get your name mentioned but years of success and numerous good dogs elevates the status.

If my tombstone reads “ A Great, God fearing Father and Hog dogger” I’ll be ok with that. For sure God is first and I don’t put anything before family but if there’s a window of opportunity you don’t have to wonder what I’m doing. I have a bad intestinal disease that deals me great misery. Prayer, my kids, and hog dogs get me through the hardest times. I spend a lot of time thinking, critiquing, planning, and studying those three things.


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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby scrubrunner » Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:06 pm

Lawdawg, I’m right there with you. And when I’ve had deaths of loved ones to deal with I’ve had many people to come comfort me but seems I got the most comfort by getting a chair and just sitting with the dogs in the dog pen.
Kinda messed up ain’t it
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby lawdawgharris » Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:45 pm

Lol nah it ain’t weird, man’s best friend as they say. My nephew and I were talking last night. He’s 25 years old and a deputy sheriff here. He’s been hunting with me since he was 4. Night before last they had a man hunt. A Houston crackhead (literally), carjacked a lady and then ran her over. They got in a high speed pursuit and the guy abandoned the vehicle on a county rd. All this happened right as my nephew’s shift ended. He was headed home already to feed and tend to dogs. So he turns around and goes back to work. He was sent home about midnight after an 18 hr shift and they were still searching for the guy. He went straight to my dads out in the country and feed and then back to town to go to bed. Most people would’ve went home to bed. By the way, he was back up and at work the next morning and at about 7am my nephew found and apprehended the guy. My points are yes I proud of him but a lot of people wouldn’t have went and fed. The dogs would’ve had to just wait. Like he said though, he wouldn’t have been able to sleep knowing he let them down. Dogs aren’t any different than anything else, you get out what you put into them. When you’ve done your part and a dog doesn’t work out then you can feel confident that it was because they weren’t cut out for the job.


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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby macedonia mule man » Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:06 am

Renegade, you mentioned your running dogs rigging, I found that to be the easiest thing to get out of a dog. Over half my dogs will rig out of the box, no need to put them up top. I’ve found they will start more tracks rigged from inside the box than up top. Wonder why ?
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Re: What makes a true “dog man/ woman/ hunter”

Postby Renagade Curs » Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:06 pm

Idk Mule Man and as far as the old southern fox bred dogs I use to have I never remember any of mine rigging but a friend of mine had 2 males out of the old dogs I use to have that did. A friend of mine had a bitch off Warren's Red Clown that would rig but that's all I remember that would. But this last bunch of running hounds I had all would rig but they were more Western Coyote bred hounds than Fox dogs. I generally chain mine in the back of my truck or side by side I don't have to travel very far to hunt my actual winter dog box for my truck is pretty enclosed its hard for them to wind out of it. As far as leaving from here at my house I can be hunting in less than 10 minutes. My Redbone pup is starting to rig nothing consistent yet and definitely not the right critters either most the time :lol:
Last edited by Renagade Curs on Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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