Natural Tree or Trained to tree?

[North Ga Plott]

We've all had dogs that just like to tree and we've all had dogs that weren't necessarily crazy about it. To make a dog tree on bear or a lion is easy they can see it obviously. Something I've seen is like on bobbers or coon in big trees or thick trees is it takes sometime to get a dog to trust its nose. What are some of your guys techniques to make a dog tree on the smaller critters? I hunt plotts and they're not necessarily the most tree crazy hounds out there. I've had some naturals and some I've had to teach. I just like to see and read about other methods. We'll never stop learning about walking behind these dogs is a fact.

[al baldwin]

Greetings North Ga. Plott. First will say I am not a cougar hunter, however tree enough of them that can tell you here on the sw Or.coast they are not always easy to locate. Normally easier than bobcat but not always easy. Will give you an example of an experience I had. The dogs started a track & had no trouble moving it had a good pace, they topped a high ridge out of hearing. I knew there was a road that would allow me to hear into that drainage. Drove about 15 minutes & found dogs treed, sounding as if they were looking at it. After about a mile hike found four dogs blowing the top out of a large, bushy tan oak. The search began, after considerable time about to give up, thinking that bobcat is well hidden or thes dog have false treed. I caught a vision of younger cougar hanging on the trunk of a fir tree about 20 ft. off the ground. Sure wish I had a camera that day, that cougar was just like it was a mount on someone/s wall. One of the strangest experience I have encountered hunting with hounds. I would guess that fir tree was about 75 feet from the tan oak those dogs were treed on. Cougar can also be hard to box at times. For getting dogs to tree that are not naturals just hunted them with tree dogs. tied them at the tree, encouraged them to tree & roll dead game out to them. Two of the four dogs treed on that tan oak were proven good locators on bobcat. Course it is not unusual to see dogs treed on trees that far away from the tree the bobcat is in.

[al baldwin]

An ever better of cougar not being easy to locate, George Horner was a long time well know houndsman in this area told me about an experience. He started track early morning, dogs trailed for hours, when he found a track & knew dogs were backwards. Turned the dogs around, getting late in day when they treed a cougar, poor light caused him to make a bad shot, cougar came out & made another run. Dogs were in a very rough area and had made a bad lose. George make his way to dogs & started searching the trees. could not see the cat. As he was searching he found a few spots of blood. Concentrating on that tree he finally found the cougar high in a fir tree. George was a straight shooter & respected by all houndsmen in this area.

[Beebout-it]

Definitely agree with Al, in my country they can’t see a lion or even a bear all the time. We have very large and thick firs and tall pines. Takes dogs with natural locating abilities to nail down game in big timber. I use to do drags to a caged animal tied up in a tree to work on their treeing abilities but anymore I just want natural ability. Definitely have seen dogs on the wrong tree by up to 50 yards or so depending on the wind, have had ravens and magpies be the only reason I found a bobcat in a tree. Anyone else seen that before? Ravens and magpies dive bombing a bobber in the tree?

[al baldwin]

Can/t say have had ravens help find bobcat, but can say I have walked away from a tree where
I was unable to find the cat and after getting too far to want to walk back to that tree. I spotted the bobcat in that tree,

[SASS]

In my experience the dogs I have had to "train" to tree were far less accurate than the naturals or the ones I just left alone and had patience and let them tree on their own even if it meant waiting till they were two years plus old.

I believe you need to be very careful about working on treeing and not do too much or you'll get tree happy dogs and a lot of slick trees especially with the treeing breeds. There are good ways to work on treeing and bad ways in my opinion and too much of anything can always be bad as well.

[macedonia mule man]

Good natural tree dogs for coon are not hard to get. Buy a tree dog pup at about 3-4 months old,put a handle and get to know it for about 3-4 months, put out a few feeders on creek bank. Take it by its self to each turn out 3 times a week. If it’s not striking running and treeing in about 6-10 trips you need to get another pup. No artificial incouragement is necessary. Don’t even say any words of encouragement or praise, just be quiet and watch.

[al baldwin]

I agree muleman, not had to find natural tree dogs in the coonhound lines. Finding accurate tree dog much more difficult. Here is another true hunting story for you. On this hunting I had two males, Deacon a five year old son of the belle & Chub was a four year old grandson of belle. A couple sheep had been killed on a ranch located very close to town of Powers Or & I got a call early A.M., knew I had to work a swing shift that p.M. but decided to go check out the kill. Dogs had no trouble taking a track away from the kill. Trailed into a very rough, brushy, steep area known as sand rock. After a short jump race things turned into a bay job that last for several hours, multi times I was able to get very close to a bay up & then the bear would break and move. It was getting late in the day I concerned about having to leave my dogs and getting to work on time. I caught a break, those two dogs bayed a nice size male bear on a rock about head high, able to get in and place a shot behind the shoulder. The bear fell from the rock & i placed a shot to the head. I then noticed Deacon had a lot of blood all over his shoulder area, turned out he had about one third of an ear missing. Like Tom Barnett, taught me I cut the bears stomach open to be sure i had killed the right bear. To my surprise, on the very top of that bear/s stomach lay that piece of ear missing from deacon. I have a picture showing deacon with ear missing & that bear head in my scrap book. I made the decision to give up bear hunting, two good reason, did not have funds for vet bills, fear of leaving dogs on such bear because of work obligations & I at times was losing sight in my right eye. I told my friend Fred Riley, I planned to sell Deacon. Next morning Ted Mcnelly knocked on my door and bought deacon. To this day I still at times lose sigh in my right eye.

[macedonia mule man]

Did you have to give the fellow a discount on account of the missing ear part?

[al baldwin]

Yes muleman, gave him a very good deal, about half asleep when knocked on my door, ask what I wanted for Deacon, told him 750*00, could tell by look on his face he was surprised. Wrote me a check and then ask how I arrived at that price. Told him I was no longer going to hunt bear and wanted deacon to go to someone who had the funds to have vets work on him when he got caught by a bear. Sure Ted made his money back real quick as he was guiding for bear. It worked well for me as I, ted bred Deacon to Sam Faulk/s female and gave me a pup, couple years later. Leo Grandmomtayne, whom I knew well had a cabin on the rogue river, told me a story, Seems Ted had a dude from out of state and Ted stopped by Leo/s cabin. Leo told him to come back that night as a big bear was tearing his apple trees up most every night. Leo said sure enough bear came back, ted turned large pack of dogs on the bear. Soon the only dog that stayed on the bear was Deacon. Leo said it was a very warm night but Ted was able to get to Deacon and got the bear killed. Leo went to help Ted get the bear out and has they were walking back Deacon collapsed to the ground they had some water worked with him and after a while Deacon was able to walk back to the cabin. Leo was a straight shooter, I would have never know about that without Leo telling me. To best my knowledge Ted kelp Deacon until he died of old age & Deacon became famous as the bear dog with the missing ear part, in the Gold Beach Or. area. That did not end my bear hunting found the chub would run and bay bear by himself. Chub was part running dog and was a dang good dog on bobcat and caught numerous bobcat alone. True story so help me god.

[macedonia mule man]

Al,you need to write a book of short story on dogs and hunting.

[al baldwin]

Heck muleman, I could never write a book, but, will tell you another true story. By time this hunt took place i had dogs that did not run bear. The dogs I had on this hunt was a larger male called Mac, he was the pup that Ted gave me, female called tiny she was the dog I told that was able to run a bobcat very well from first time ever had her on & split her littermate brother that I talked about the day I thought he was running a deer & it turned out to be a bobcat. Tom Barnett was with me and be had one male dog. It was the weekend of the Oregon State Bobcat & Tom wanted us to enter. Recall we had got a late start due to vehicle problems, but I knew an area where I had treed a nice size tom and let him go thinking would hunt for him in the state hunt. Not sure if we started the same tom, but we got a bobcat jumped & it ended in a very bluff and cost us a few hours. We decided to change hunting grounds, by time we arrived it was getting late in day. Tom must have really been fired up as he wanted to hunt all night, something we never intentionally did. But night had arrived & we were driving thru a ranch area wher wild cows often stood in the road and refused to move. Tom now driving my rig, said what are those eyes glowing in the road. I raised up about half asleep and said cows. Tom drove up to within in a few feet of three cougars, it seemed unreal, one of those big cats was sitting on a couple logs & dirt that was used to load heavy equipment on lowboys. Two more stood very still and seem to be starin at us. Tom turn thr rig off & those cats jetted into the brush. I told Tom think we are going to tree a cougar. Carefully got the female out of the box and put her right where those big cats had entered the brush. She left in fullcry and I dumped the box. Dogs had a hot race going, but made few circles, before going out of hearing. We followed on foot sonn top the ridge and heard the dogs treed solid. Arrived at the tree, shined the light and found a smaller looking bobcat. Said we have treed a bobcat, oh bull tom said shoot up there and bet a cougar will fall out. I shot out a 17 & one half pound bobcat out. We headed back to the rig, sbout half way there Mac opened and the dogs started working what appeared to be an older track. Dogs struggled with that made a big circle & arrived at the road very near where we first saw those cougars. I told Tom maybe they have back track those cougars bact to this spot, unsure what do I let them continue to struggle with that track. Dogs eventually got track off the road & headed up what we called south canyon. Track got better in a hurry and soon had a younger looking cougar treed. We pull the dogs and head fot the rig, Tom was sure one of those cats was a big tom and wanted to find it. We arrived at the rig and found no other track. Started the rig and headed for new hunting ground. I remember we had hung that bob inan old barn and we need to go back to get it. As we neared the area where we had seen those tgree cougar a cougar jetted across the road. We dump the box and treed what appeared to be a female cougar. Tom was so pumped up talked me into hunting all night & into the Pm hrs. of the next day. I walked the dogs down several ridges where we had atarted bobs in past years never got another bark, after our three cougar & one bobcat gig. Needless that cat did not place in the stste hunt. I have made a fw typos but sure folks can figure them out. True story as I remember it, swaer to god Al

[Beebout-it]

I could read your stories all day Al , I’m with muleman seems you should share your adventures in a book!

[lawdawgharris]

Those are good stories for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[al baldwin]

Bobcat hunting is the biggest challenge of all the critters I have experienced. Friend & i had ran a bobcat more times than like admit, it was about 10 am or so & don/t think we had found a track after roading all dogs for couple hrs. decided to box for a spell. We had boxed couple dogs up a steep road for couple mile to a spot we always checked, as we were driving back to main road two dogs on box rigged a good track. We dumped box & listened to a good race for about maybe half hour, dogs made loses but had recovered quick, then we had a down that lasted long enough the cat got a good lead. Tom Hawkins, dog called hawk, got out on rest and we could him moving the track but he did not have a tight jump. That cat had dogs strung out all over and we both became flustered. As we were moving to allow us to be closer to Hawk we picked up a couple dogs that had gotten slung out. We drove on up to a ridge that got us closer to Hawk, Tom stopped at a low spot than we knew as a very good bobcat crossing, we heard hawk and sounded like he had gained ground on the cat. Tom looked in the rearview glass and saw a bobcat shoot across the road just a few feet behind the pickup. I tried to get the dogs we had picked up on the exact spot the cat had exited the road. Those dogs could not smell a track on that side of the road, I had walked a couple dogs in the direction the cat had gone, then a young dog found the cat scent on the backend and pulled the others to them. Hawk dog arrived about that time, but it was complete mess, after trying again showing dogs where the cat had gone we gave up. Believe we caught that cat on the ground sometime later after a good race.