Question for Dewey

[scrubrunner]

David, a few years ago befor highway traffic got too bad you could have come to my house and seen hounds that looked content and layed back laying all around my yard, BUT that was because they had went off that night and ran their aces off and came dragging in about 9 am and conked out there for the next 12 hours, to do it all over again.LOL I enjoy your questions, I beleive they make a lot of us really think about the answer and some of us learn a lot from others that approach things differently than we do. But I have always thought like you on this, if I leave a dog out if it has the drive I expect out of a hound it better slip off and go hunting, but I have never tried to teach one not too, I beleive I could but I don't think I would ever trust it enough to drive off and leave. I didn't think my bulldog ever left the crator he's got dug in my front yard but the other day I came home from work early and I caught him a 1/4 mile from home trotting down the side of the road if i'd been 30 min. later at my regular time he'd have been in that crator acting like he'd been there all day. Dogs are experts at figuring out when you are not looking.

[david]

You guys reading this who can relate to my experience, c'mon now, give me some support. Don't let these guys intimidate you the way they do me

Scrubrunner, you are my hero. I wrote the above before I saw your post. You totally read me my good brother.

[mike martell]

David

Back in those days and today...The answer would be no...My dogs were kept on a chain and only released when they went hunting, now a kennel for ease of cleanliness. You could never sell me on the notion my dog wouldn't wander off and go hunting, still can't!

I hunted 52 weeks a year back then and didn't think outside of the box, often times I still don't think outside the box by design....I can tell you on my end how and why....I grew up in an era before computers, hound forums, cell phones, tracking collars, gps and good e-collars and was taught to never spoil your hunting dog and things were different, we only had a small core of houndsmen to learn from and most were old school.

Until these forums come along and discussions like these....We simply stayed the course as taught......Examples such as using an e-collar tone to have your dogs leave the tree on command and not dragged off as they lunge at the game sitting in the tree....House dogs vs. kennel dogs to name a few that become mind and thought provoking topics, and now this topic....

[david]

Thank you Mike. A three strand cord is not easily broken. I no longer feel like an outcast.

[mark]

David, that was a lot of years ago and a lot of hard learned lessons ago. we didn't have much for e collars then and the switch was still the most reliable correcting tool available to us. The Cricket female out of Banjo and Rainbow was as hard a headed dog I have ever owned. I couldn't turn my back on her for a minute and she would be gone and not coming back till you ran her down for the most part. When I bred her to a dog out of California they threw some mediocre cat dogs and some pretty solid lion and bear dogs. One female I remember out of them only lived to be 13-14 months old but she could do it all from rig to tree on all species we had here by herself. I cant find it but I have a picture of her and our house cat curled up together in front of her dog house and not chained up. She would stay around the house and never leave while I was around (never tried driving off and leaving her un tied) that seems to be asking for disaster to me. I have 4 dogs now that are that way but I don't take any credit for it, its just the way they are for some reason. One female out here goes straight to her dog house and inside it when I un collar her, and I have forgot to snap her up multiple times over the years and she will be there the next morning just as if she was snapped up ready to go hunting, or if I don't go hunting she will be there at feed time around 4 pm. I have came home at times to find a dog that has unsnapped or slipped a collar and they are just hanging out around the house waiting on me. I have no explanation for dogs that behave this way only a theory, so take it for what its worth. I think we all agree that brains are essential in a cat dog and a 2 yr old dog around here has shown me something pretty special in that dept. That dog should of been on between 75-100 cats at that age if i have done my part. They have been to the woods a lot and i think they are smart enough to know when we are hunting and when we are resting and behave accordingly. Something i have thought about a lot over the years and it comes up on here frequently is that a lot of the really good cat dogs you hear about all get along with house cats good and even share living quarters sometimes. somehow they just know what they were put on earth to do. This is just my theory based on what i have seen and heard over time. Also i spend a lot of time with the dogs around the house both chained and unchained.

[oneguy828]

These are the discussion that keep me questioning the way i do things and challenging my thought processes. Thanks Mark, David and Mike and all others who applied. I appreciate your comments and look forward to reading this type of stuff. I know it don't mean a lot coming from somebody you don't know but i am glad you take your time to put together these types of posts. Just a few words of encouragement to keep doing what you do.

About the topic, from my experience one dog out seems to do fine and doesn't wander off too much, or "go hunting". When i let more than that out is when i have a harder time keeping them under control. I have an older dog that i am not sure evens knows she can leave the property without me. I leave her out whenever i get a chance and I will be on the property, even at night. I just don't like the idea of having dogs out when i am not there because for multiple reason but mainly because i do not know if i could handle the thought of losing a dog due to letting them out with no particular gain by doing so. Whats the risk/reward factor

[BrandonCombe]

Enjoy this topic do to the fact that its hard for me to imagine.e one could let out a decent number of hou es at o e and not have them run off I uave had dogs I could let out for a good part of the dayand it was only one at a time and would not run off but I would not be able to relax during g that time fearing they would leave I have had hounds loose and end up taking off also can recall many times waking up to hounds treed were they had got loose in the night and had a fox treed or coon one time I had 3 young coons bayed up in an old culvert by my hank dog when he was young since then I have built nice kennels to keep them in maybe I should get a better handle on the mutts

[mike martell]

David, I think you will enjoy the trip down memory lane.

I went back in my archived photos and scanned a picture of the dog Mark just mentioned named Mindy at a bear tree, possibly well before one year old and all by herself did we make the tree before my plotts arrived....This was my turning point in hounds and the end of plotts....My thoughts were if that little walker female coon dogged that bear out of the country ahead of the real deal bear dogs, I'm done with her.....Well you can see, she is the only dog in the picture treed like a big dog....The second is my Kate dog, a sister to Mindy from an earlier litter treed on a coast bear alone after the pack went backwards and decided to monkey around, Kate ignored them and lined out the sow and cub and had them both treed alone at 11 months of age, a better lion and bear dog than bobcat dog but still a hound that left her mark....The last is a littermate sister to the cricket dog from Banjo and Rainbow named Minnie that belonged to Bill Bailey all these were taken at bear trees prior to the ban many years ago....The last picture posted was of a bear we won the Oregon State Championship bear hunt with in 1983....

[al baldwin]

David did not intend to make you feel like an outsider. Was surprised, you were so surprised, hounds could be allowed to run free at times. Those two dogs you owned were straight from competition coon hounds who probably had been bred for generations for one purpose. Any time they were free cast they were to get gone & not be seen until they treed a coon.
Have owned a few of those myself, have been able to train most to hunt with me, recall one if turned loose he was going hunting, could not break him from it. Also he was one game catching son of gun, very gritty, critter caught on ground, he was going to be full of holes. Have a good day Al

[Dads dogboy]

David,

Dad and Mr. Dewey both used the same sayings to describe Dog/Hound Habits. One of the Jewels they have both used is "The Hounds hunt with me....I don't Hunt with the Hound".

As Mark says it takes a SMART Hound to make a BOBCAT Hound......it is not a big stretch to believe Mr. Dewey's Hounds KNOW when it is time to go Hunting and when he is just piddling around. They know that going hunting without the Boss would be missing out on an important member of the Team. I know that I can drive to the Barn several times a day and a Hound or two might tell me hello, or try to get me to feed them again.....but let me pull up to the Barn and back up to the pen and every HOUND KNOWS Game on!

We keep our Hounds in Kennels not so much for fear they may leave and go Hunting ( in AR the US Hwy is less than 100 yards from the Kennels) but to keep them secure from Thieves......oh well that did not work out so well!

[scrubrunner]

I think I could teach MOST of mine to stay here MOST of the time, but I would never trust them too. I think they are SMART enough to know when they could get away with it. But my hounds are from generations of hounds trained to free cast just as Al described. I still enjoy running in a few foxhound field trials that still run in the open so I like a hound that is a little more independent than most straight cat hunters. As far as smarts go my two hounds that I think are the smartest,one has the desire to please and is very trainable the other one is smart enough to know when I am not around and can figure out how to get out of any enclosure without a floor, roof or HOT wire.

[Jeff Eberle]

I've started all mine by letting them run loose on the ranch, Sat on the porch of the cabin many of night and watched them work their way across the meadow and off into the canyon many of evenings ,with them knowing I'd be on my way with one quick chop or long bawl. So if you would go to bed early and get up Late, Then ya mine will do that too.... That's what I taught then to do.

[pegleg]

yes david you could expect to see hounds loose in my yard. i didn't think this was unusual at all. i don't pen young pups and i don't keep my dogs in the kennels if i am home working out side or just hanging out. the dogs know when we are going hunting and when its not allowed. the only time my hounds spend a good portion of their time in kennels is from 5 months to a year. that isn't a firm rule just approximate given most of them are starting to hunt at this age and while they are really learning i don't let temptation get the better of training. i don't like to chain hounds it makes them difficult to handle . i hunt free cast exclusively and can't or won't fight a pack of hounds . they go where i say and hunt what they get the ok to. i still don't know exactly what this debate is about. it seems that hounds are expected to take off on their own and run where ever and its your job to round them up? to be clear i don't care how much game a dog like that treed or chased i'd knock it in the head. i can't stand a dog you can't control . i noticed my weakness recently is my dogs don't load on command like they should . but in their defense , it's my fault for not teaching them to load in a pick up. i just haven't hunted like that in years they either load in the horse trailer or follow me out on horse so it leaves a gap in their knowledge. i keep my dogs kenneled at night and if i'm gone or if i have females in season. not all just to keep breeding from happening. i don't let my dogs bark. they aren't allowed to chase stock or any other off limits animal. they will turn on command to avoid areas i can't or don't want to go.
i think what many people loose sight of is that hounds of any type are still dogs and should behave like a good dog.. do my cow dogs go out and work cattle on their own? of course not. same goes for bird dogs . can dogs be tempted yes plain and simple just like you or me. but if they don't get away with misbehaving they tend to behave. would i trust my dogs home alone? not all, some yes but it's been earned and confirmed. will they run a bobcat, lion or bear out of the yard yes most definitely thats just to much temptation. if i call them back they better come. if you hunt on foot or horse back in big country i don't see how you could possibly handle wild running non-responsive hounds. if i have to go through some other ranch yard or campground etc. to reach tracks those dogs know to single file it through there. they aren't allowed to make a nuisance of themselves . we don't have much of a road system so if a hound wants to get lost you better believe its real easy. but they are just taught from the start we all hunt together. i lead until someone hits a track and then we follow the track if its lost or they can't finish it they check in before we change direction or continue. and my dogs all know or learn quick how to trail a horse or find the truck/home/camp. hounds with manners hunt just as well and successful or more so in my opinion then a dog that just runs wild.

[Jkohnke]

Up until just a few years ago all our dogs stayed out. We had no pen except a 5 X 8 or so with a barrel in it for when a jip was in heat. Sometimes as many as a dozen running dogs had hide outs and sleeping holes all over our place. Like scrubrunner said they would slip off in the evenings and go run at night but all would be back in by 8 or 9 the next morning. Fell asleep many a summer night with the windows up on our house and hearing those dogs after a coyote or fox. Pups were born outside and sometimes not seen until they could crawl out from under a section of the barn where the jips always seem to go have them. We could hunt several miles from home with no tracking collars and if we left a dog out on a hunt they knew their way home for miles. A couple loud pats on the tail gate of the truck when you were ready to go hunting and dogs would be knocking down loading up. Hunters all over our area were the same way. Drive up at their house and hounds would come out to meet you. Things change though. People have moved in and land busted up and sold so its different know. I got 6 running dogs that I don't even claim to have a handle on. They are kept in pens and given the chance to slip by you when you open the gate they are gone strait to the woods and your not gonna stop them or put your hands on them until they have run their feet off and rolled their eyes back in their head from briars and brush whipping them. These dogs I have now are the same type dogs we use to have they are just raised and housed different. Makes a big difference in how they handle.

[david]

This truly is the weirdest twilight zone thread I have ever been a part of. I don't know when or if I can respond properly to each factor I would like to. Did want to thank Mike and Mark for giving me some common ground. Eg dogs I am familiar with. Hopefully can get back to this later.