Rigging Topic

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Unreal_tk
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Rigging Topic

Postby Unreal_tk » Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:54 pm

I started a new post as to avoid conflict with the original post this topic started that got off topic.

Merlo I think a lot of focus of cold nose is focused on the type and conditions of the snow. More east you go more variations of snow you can have. Im 100% believer that you can rig cats in snow country. The biggest confusion of this is that you have to have a hot track compared to snow tracks most these guys are used to. As a rig dog progresses on it the colder it can go. Consistent on the coast vs the snow is that population factor, terrorty size, road access, and probably more. You can't rig something that is not there!

How many snow tracks do you hit that are a hour or less old, not many. That's about how old of tracks these guys rig. (Note: not saying you can't rig older but the average track age is somewhere around that i would guess)

It's simple science. Not theory.

I live in snow country and have seen it done. Every week no, when opportunity is there yes. Do my personal dogs do it ? No. I've been in the process of trying and will keep doing so until I have what I want.

My ways of training ? I've been starting to leave dogs on the box when I turn out, wait for them to open before I'll cut them loose. Progress ? Nothing yet, one of these times I will! I need to be more consistent about it to be honest. I get in a hurry when I find that track poking in the snow.

Critic me all you want, nay Sayers and all!
Last edited by Unreal_tk on Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby Old dog » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:07 am

good post. the best way I have found to develop a rig dog is to rig them. in the past when something happened to my older rig dogs and I had to start over I simply quit roading them and strictly rigged them till they hit a hot track and struck. my catch rate along with my start rate went to nill but in the end,, I made rig dogs. this has worked for me but I am sure there is other ways. jmo
no mater if you think you can or you think you cant,, you are probably rite.
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby al baldwin » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:22 am

Thomas, sure don/t want to sound like a know it all, but, in my opinion, based on my experience, good rig dog here on coast has rigged many tracks over an hour old. Some rig such cold scent it can be annoying at times. The log dog ( believe related to some of your dogs) we have discovered has as cold nose as any we hunt, has never rigged a track for us. However, when roading him he is often the first to open on a cold scent. He opens a time or two then goes hunting for the cat, scattering his barks, not mouthy, has put distance between his barks. I am thinking he may not bark off the rig, hunts very good from the box. Some dogs just don/t make rig dogs, when they have all the tools. WHY??? I have never figured that one out. Respectful Al
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby dwalton » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:27 am

It sounds like you are rigging in snow to make a rig dog? I never rig in snow it just slows me down. I have in the past just to check things out. If it is 28 and up you can rig ok in snow, cold temperatures I think you will rig very few cats in snow. That said I have rigged cats down to 10 degrees on bare frozen ground but it is less effective then warner temperatures. I have boxed bobcats in July in the sagebrush desert and on frozen ground there also. If I have roads and bobcats I have not yet found a place I could not rig then. I have caught bobcats in Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, and Colorado. I can have rigged cats in every month of the year here,on the coast,in the cascades, in the high pine of central Oregon and in the desert every moth except in August. That said on bare frozen ground, 4 inches of pumice or dry desert it is hard to complete a track. I believe you have to have the right dog to make a box dog, not one trained on bear for bobs. Some areas you may not be able to teach one but can take a good rig dog there and start bobcats even in Montana. My dogs will rig a bobcat track that they cannot trail I have seen them rig a 3 day old scratch. How do I know that because I killed the cat off of it three days before. Dewey
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby catdog360 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:46 am

Well today I hunted from 6:30 am til 3 pm. I hunted an area that used to be a good cat area, but I have stayed out of it for about 5 years because there was steel in there. I went back in there and the guy is still in there running steel, found 4 traps today. Anyways the population is still lower then it has been. I rigged 3 different cats, got a lot of tail wiggle found one toilet and about 4 scrapes and lots of scat.
I never got a race or even a bark but I found out where the cats are. Some days are tough and I know some guys have better start dogs. But I still went hunting, I still tried. Practice, practice, practice. You guys will never rig a cat if you don't try. If you only hunt the snow you should know where all your cat crossings are. Go to them rig a mile before and a mile past. Then head to your next crossing. Stack the odds in your favor. I wished I had a better strike dog and I would head to Montana. I believe it can be done. Maybe not rig, strike, jump and tree three days in a row. Heck I wished i could that here. But I feel if I went out and hit one pee post or scrape, I would feel more accomplished then sitting at home waiting for snow. The more you try the better the odds are in your favor.

This is only my opinion, take it for what its worth.
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby newby » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:08 am

Is it breeding, training or conditions? How do you make your first reliable rig dog to build your pack around? I want to be able to to run cats even when we have no snow or crappy snow reliably? Looking advice on how to do that?
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby rockytrails » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:15 am

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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby ridgerunners » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:18 am

How I hunt bobcats here in COLORADO is on snow . I live at 7500 feet and hunt between 7500and 10000feet . I AM a snow hunter yes 95percent of the time . I drive roads and find tracks and I don't care how old the track is as long as the hounds can move it . If they can't we load back up and look for a new one . Sometimes it looks like a bad track and they smokeit and sometimes I think my wifes toy poodle could of caught it and we cant do a thing!Thats why I love to run these bobcats .I am always waiting for the next storm to get that edge! In my opinion you can not rig bobcats here in Colorado but Iam still holding on to some hope !! I don't doubt that you westcoast boys can rig them out there though. I have one in my pack from there and she rigged there but cant do it here. She is a very nice hound and is working the snow nicely....
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby catdog360 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:20 am

I firmly believe its genetics. Like Al said some won't rig. I have a female from Andy. She has been raised with my hounds every since she was a pup. I put her on top every day. She won't rig anything but a bear. But one of my other dogs strikes she will come off and find the track. Maybe if I had her one the front where I could watch her maybe she twitches or wiggles but I know she won't bark on cat scent. She needs more scent to trigger her. She has had every chance to strike but just doesn't.

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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby mike martell » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:35 am

One thing I started doing after making my hounds leave the tree without a leash by way of the tri-tronics tone and then advancing to the shock method is to rig my dogs all loose on top. I have five total hounds and this includes one pup, I feel all my dogs need be complete or I'm done if I lose my main dog....I keep the tail gate down and the dogs are free to rig what they want and mess up together...You would think this method would cost you cats and massive train wrecks, but it doesn't...I strike a scratch or coyote or whatever, I would ware myself out getting in and out and unsnapping and checking tracks...This way I hang in the truck and listen to the dogs or observe actions to determine what I have, if they don't connect? They all load back up and away I go!

I find hounds are pretty sharp at figuring things out and this levels the playing field, allowing every dog to be a hero or zero...Just a few short years ago? If you told me this is how I would end up hunting? I would have called you crazy! To me it makes no sense to own a start dog when every dog you own should be capable of rigging and starting a track. Some hounds never make rig dogs, even if they love riding the box. I found when I tied my dogs I had more screw ups and on occasion had a hound slip out of range of cutting a second dog to the lead dog and finally just quit doing what I done for over thirty years. Garmin has cured most of that.

I switch hit my hounds and as stated previously at a toll on adding a few extra off barks when rigging for bobcats, possibly not ever refining what a single department hound would be capable of, If I only rigged bobcats, too me and me alone, it is well worth the headaches....Here are some random thoughts...I have owned and hunted behind a rig dog for a lifetime and learn something new all the time or refine a theory...This is a game of experience. The more you do it, the more you learn. Always keep an open mind!

Here is another question?...How many bobcats does it take to make a bobcat rig dog in a given season? Sounds like some guys struggle to catch ten bobcats per year...I had a great season and feel with what cats I caught, it's not fair to simply limit my dogs to one species. I feel a hound should be hunted every week the year around and as much as possible during season with no lapse in time.

My dogs are a work in progress, all the time I strive to improve and keep an open mind to new ideas and too dumb to think I can't do any thing with a hound I set my mind too...You will reach a tipping point when things come together, most give up because it is just easier to wait on good snow conditions to eliminate back tracking or starting off game etc.

I too have rigged in many different States and provinces and feel a hound can do it any place. Some places and times of the year, just not the same....Here are my thoughts in closing...Why would you close your eyes to ideas and simply not keep trying until you get it right...This is how we survived before shock collars and modern gadgetry, you survive under these conditions the rest becomes easier....Hunt however you want...I have enjoyed being out this winter in the bone dry cinder blocks and desert of Central Oregon with no other hunters out giving it a go because most either think it can't be done or it is too difficult.

Why not expand another tool or method of hunting? During season, I plan on hunting in advance and go regardless of weather and conditions...

Mike
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby 1bludawg » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:19 am

A cold nosed rig dog will strike a cat many hours old from the box.I've owned several that did it and have one now.They'll hit on a day old scratch like its red hot ,when you let them down there's not a track to trail......just the scratch! If there is no track or not much of one a rig dog will still strike on the scratch or where the cat has sprayed a bush ,post or whatever.Just like treeing some dogs take to it naturally,others have to learn to do it and some never do it.When i was a young buck not many guys thought you could rig bobcat here in Oregon .I took a great cat hunter out to show him it could be done .After that he didn't rest until he bought a rig dog .
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby dwalton » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:40 am

Newby: It is breeding first conditioning second. I Think I am the oldest living bobcat hunter to rig for bobcats, doing it the longest time. I am not sure when Finny Clay started rigging in the southeast?I seen bear rig dogs that came from DeMoss in Washington in the mid'60 while hunting with a great bear hunter as a teenager. In my late teens I hunted with Roland Wilson a bear bobcat and lion hunter. We started rigging for bobcats in 1969 or 1970, everyone said it could not be done. Tom Barns might of started before us , or some of the guys in Washington might of started before us on cats. It does no good to box a dog that is not bobcat minded. Most dogs that run bear will walk over a good bobcat track, the same with lion dogs on bare ground. It is best to use a dog that is striking to train young dogs but I have started young dogs three different times without old dogs. You need lots of cats, brush and patient. Here is what people that have not seen it done can't believe, you will start far more bobcats from the rig then you will walk hunting or roading. You cover far more ground without waring out your dogs, they can take it out of the wind from the box farther then they can by being on the road. On two occasions I have seen dogs go over 1/4 mile after striking a track before they hit the track itself. If the wind is blowing toward them they can go a long ways to a track. They will hit piss bushes or scratches that are days old. I boxed 125 miles in poring down rain before I got a strike just to prove it could be done. I will walk hunt when I need to and road them when they are cold or need exercise, other wise it is a waste of time to road for bobcats. Where you hunt and conditions will determined what to do. I do not rig in the snow. I doubt if you could train a bobcat rig dog in Montana But I will bet that a good one trained to box will box anywhere. Dewey
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby newby » Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:46 am

Dewey, I don't doubt your cat hunting expertise...I'm sure you've forgotten more than I'll ever know about it. I have a few thoughts on your comments: 1st, I think you are probably right about needing lots of cats, brush and patience to train rig dogs for cats. I'm not a strict cat hunter, I've realized I don't have the population for that here. Can't do anything about my location...can't move so I can hunt hunt cats alone. What I am interested in is how do I get my dogs striking reliably cats/lions...I don't run bears or coons for that matter. My dogs have struck cats out of the box, but they are few and far between and I know I've driven over fresh tracks in the snow where they were on the box and didn't know it was there til I let them down and they found the track themselves. Guess I'm just wondering if I were to say, get a strike dog from somewhere else, could I train my dogs to strike more or is it the breeding of my hounds or is it, as some have said, just the conditions over here. My conditions ar for more like that of eastern wa or northern Idaho, than twist's and some of the other guys here. Usually we have lots of good snow to find tracks in, but this year has sucked and it's been dry for almost a month now. Just had some rain/snow mix, heading out in the morning to see if we can't rig, start, or buy a track. The way you describe the situation it seems like you think it's pointless to try though. I have patience and I have a love of the woods and dogs, so I'll make something happen, just looking for some help along the way. Thanks, Darin
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby Unreal_tk » Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:00 am

Ok Darin I am not saying this will work but here are ideas I've been presented by others for these conditions. If you hunt the same area enough you should know the crossings. Rig everywhere but these crossing. Road thru them instead. I haven't had much luck but it seems to be the most productive method you can do. Next best is free casting while walking out a good drainage.
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Re: Rigging Topic

Postby Clyde Lawson » Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:37 pm


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