Laika on bobcat

[dpetty]

Do any of you hunt Laika on bobcat? Over in Europe they use them on lynx. We are about a year from being able to hunt bobcat just wondering if anyone hunts a laika on them. I run coon and squirrel with mine. They will tree feral cats (not the same thing) but putting them on fresh tracks in a fresh snow should be no different than them running coon. They do not open on track.

[dirtdodge]

I've been tossing this idea around for a couple of years. I know a laika will tree a bobcat that's not the problem. It's getting them to track it up I noticed is the hard part. And not finding something else to chase, squirrel, coon, rabbit, partridge ect...

I have 2 ideas on this...
1. Walk a cat track for who knows how long with the dog until they jump it. Then keep putting them on it if they make a lose.
2. Let the hounds cold trail and just free cast a laika into the blow down/swamp. I bet the laika would have that cat treed before the hounds started making the circles with the cat...

I think my next laika pup will be hunted a lot by cutting tracks and walking it in. Training it hunt this way. I always walk hunt/ free cast my dogs and I think it's not teaching them to cold trail like the hounds would be trained. I'm not comparing the nose of laikas to hounds but more the way the hounds are hunted/trained...

Any info from more experienced cat hunter's would be nice...

[houndsandterriers]

My elkhounds hunt the same way as a coyote would, wind sight and hearing. I hunted in the cold desert, not in perfect the scenting conditions of a place like Oregon, but I did wait for an 80 percent humidity day to go out. The problem that they had was out smarting themselves. They can smell at least a mile with 80 percent humidity and when they would get close the cats would hide in a mine shaft or a rock cliff. This messed them all up, if the cats would have treed it would have worked. Dog never opened or barked once unless it had something treed or located.

I am guessing that the success would depend on where you was hunting. I got to find me a new hunting spot away form old mine shafts. The dog has all the ability needed to hunt, speed agility, grit, self preservation. Will not do any thing stupid that would cost you money in vet bills. BUT the nose of an elkhound isn't nearly as good as a proven hound. Its also important to note that a spits dog is a winter dog, it will not get cold or stop hunting because of cold weather, you really need a cold climate for elkhounds.

I am not a real experienced cat hunter but I tested them dogs for six years.

[merlo_105]

Ok this whole topic is very interesting and I think it's awesome you guy's are thinking outside the box and trying or wanting to try something different. Dpetty, I personally wouldn't waist my time with one yes they do fine with game and they have a decent enough nose to trail some. But a bobcat puts off little scent so unless you have a bobcat on every corner your going to be going home empty handed ALOT... And houndsandterriers how do you know there smelling from a mile? Also if they can smell it from a mile why can't they find it in a mine shaft? How do you even know there after a cat if your dog's aren't finding them. Not trying to be the negative guy. Dpetty, what do you want in a dog what kind of hunting are you going to be doing? You have lots of land with lots of Cat? How many dogs you plan on hunting?

[Dan McDonough]

Curiously, I have a possible answer for the elkhound scenting question.

I ran a pair of jagdterriers pretty hard for quite a number of years and both were excellent dogs but the male was a very good track dog and was a good locator. The female was a good track dog and a very good locator. This made the female an overall better hunting dog if hunted alone but the two of them together were deadly. One thing I noticed over time was that locating in a confined area took a different nose than it did to run an old track well. Like I said, they were both very good dogs but the differences between them taught me a lot about those two different aspects in their noses.

The many other dogs I've had since then have taught me just how good those two dog were and some of them were very good locators but poor track dogs and others were very good track dogs and fair locators.

I'll take an excellent locator first above all for general hunting but without an excellent track dog, anyone would be spinning their wheels chasing bobcat and that's just the sort of thing a bobcat depends on to get away.

Oddly enough there are many successful bobcat hunters that have relied on a mixed pack to take them to great heights in the game of bobcat hunting. I think one of the overlooked gems in the dog world is the beagle. In the state of Illinois, there are not the dangers of lions, wolves and bears to call for the need of a larger dog to chase cats. The landscape is realatively flat and the running easy. I think a good partner for a laika would be a beagle that was properly trained to cats and broke from other game. They are easy to get, tough to wear out and the better ones stick well to a track. Once the beagle gets the cat located and moving, the laika could slip in and clean up. Of course, you could just get a leopard or a walker or an english or one of the traditional breeds but a guy that has a laika has already proven he wants to do things a little different. The beagle may make for an unique show and still get 'er done.

Just an idea.

[david]

viewtopic.php?f=72&t=26519&p=180700#p180700

Hans in the above thread (December 2011) is from Norway I beleive.

I Will try to find something from another man from Norway. Leif, was his name I think, but might have been on one of the previous boards. He used a spitz (elk hound I think) with a scent hound, as Dan suggested.

[Dan McDonough]

I never did get that Laika. I'm still very curious about them though. I ended getting off onto the lurcher project. Unfortunately for me I'm still wanting for the tree with the lurchers so it's clearly possible that I may have made a mistake. I do have a great pair of lurchers but when it comes to treeing I rely on my leopards still.

[david]

From what little I know, if I had to pick dogs for no other trait except Treeing, I would pick from the spitz breeds such as Liaka, elkhound, Finnish spitz, etc. Because it is the only type dog I know of that has been bred specifically for the Treeing trait for many hundreds of years (if not thousands). I doubt if you could find one without a strong Treeing instinct.

And they do not tree the tree, they tree the game and watch it or watch where it is.

For a hound guy though it is hard to get past the way they look. If I saw one sitting high in a tree, I would probably think that was a big old Tom And shoot him out. My eyes ain't so good though.

I bet the curly tail has saved a few from the coyote hunters gun as well. I have seen one without the curly tail on a guys dog house and thought sure it was of wolf or coyote breeding. DPetty, you must worry about one getting mistaken for game? I know I would. Out here in ND where every rancher has a rifle beside him and they can see five miles, I think I might have to paint a fluorescent orange number on both sides of the dog. They might thank me for the target, but at least I would not have to wonder if it was an accident.

[houndsandterriers]

[Dan McDonough]

Ditto David, well said.

I'd like to see more of the Elkhound too. There's one I have not had any experience with, to speak of anyhow. I have heard some great things about them though.

H&T- I get what your saying. While I can't let my dogs run loos where I live (to close to the hwy.) I have a friend just South of me that I just talked to about an hour and a half ago. He is down to one dog and it's pretty lonely so I told him I'd give him one of my extras. His dogs have a good sized area of mixed swamp and woodland to run around. This is one of my favorite training areas for cats and has a little of everything in it. Hi dogs are regularly gone for most of the day investigating something they caught on the wind. I've had them come into trees before and after they got over my being there they would come out to hunt with my dogs when ever I pulled in one of the trails leading into that property. It's pretty interesting what dogs can pick up when they are left to their own devices. His dogs were Aus. Shepard x Lab crosses and had plenty of hunt in them. All but one of them would tree fairly well after a few times out with me and my dogs but all of them were good locators. The problem was when I would shoot a coon out they would swipe the coon (if they could catch me not paying attention...fool me once...) and bring it all of the way back to the farm. This only happened a handful of times and my friend (not a hunter) would put the coon up somewhere high and call me to come and get it.

Long story short (to late) I can see where a smart dog with some room to run can develop quite a nose for the wind.

[mtncurhunter]

If there is one thing that I have learned it is that just because someone says it won't work doesn't mean it won't work. I don't know anything about laika but everyone doubted me about running curs on cats here. They showed me that they could do it all on there own and excel at it. Sometimes a dog will surprise you of what they are capable of or maybe not so much capable but what they are willing to do. The only way you'll find out is by trying. I have multiple friends that have been trying curs now. Some work, some don't, so try what you got and see what happens. You've already got the dogs so you are not out nothing if they don't work on cats.

[dirtdodge]

Mtcurhunter. Could you please tell me how you started your curs on cats? I have laikas my dad has curs. We squirrel and coon hunt, squirrel mostly. I have to drive a couple hours to get into bobs here in MI. So training on them is a little difficult. And me telling the difference in tracks cats/coyotes is another thing... Do you hunt them like the hounds? I'm just curious on a great way to get the dogs started on cats.

I'm bound and determined to get them on a cat.
Thanks.

[dpetty]

Orange vest no problem with people shooting my dogs. I am a versatile hunter in other words I hunt my Laika on coon, game birds and squirrels. I am going by what hunters in other Countries use them. They kill a lot of lynx and sable with them. Typically put them out in fresh snow tracks. I have had mine track coon a long ways to tree them. We do not have enough of a cat population to spend time buying a cat dog. I was pondering the question if anyone in the US had done it. I don't question will they tree them and their nose and winding ability. Any dog that successfully tracks sable on the ground and timbers them in sub zero temps has the nose. I figure if we tree them it will be more on accident than on purpose but I look for the most versatile laika to breed and this is another test. I have also tested them on hogs and they had no issue especially baying not catching and intelligence when to pull hair. Just was wondering if anyone in the US have used them.

[Rickylane06]

Dans Quote

Oddly enough there are many successful bobcat hunters that have relied on a mixed pack to take them to great heights in the game of bobcat hunting. I think one of the overlooked gems in the dog world is the beagle. In the state of Illinois, there are not the dangers of lions, wolves and bears to call for the need of a larger dog to chase cats. The landscape is realatively flat and the running easy. I think a good partner for a laika would be a beagle that was properly trained to cats and broke from other game. They are easy to get, tough to wear out and the better ones stick well to a track. Once the beagle gets the cat located and moving, the laika could slip in and clean up. Of course, you could just get a leopard or a walker or an english or one of the traditional breeds but a guy that has a laika has already proven he wants to do things a little different. The beagle may make for an unique show and still get 'er done.

Just an idea.[/quote]

Ive been putting this plan into action for awhile now. Other than from you Dan, ive never heard anyone express interest in the idea. I live deep in the heart of WV with a healthy bobcat population. I think with the help of a scent hound( My case a beagle) , Elkhounds would have no problem catching/treeing bobcat. They are sneaky agile dogs that i believe could close the distance on a bob in a hurry. And they are great tree dogs that i think would give a man a good chance to see what he's been chasing.