!!! The Ultimate Bobcat Dog...Part 1.5 !!!

[twist]

so past all the hi tech talk are these ultimate bobcat dogs catching any cats?????

[Dan McDonough]

Twist- Yes but not at the "Ultimate" level. In certain situations, they are more efficient than nearly all hounds but they lack cold trailing and so far, I haven't made one that trees well enough for me. That's where I'm at in a short, practical sense.

I'm working on making some more Lurchers and am hoping that they will tree while still maintaining the advantages that the Border Collie brings. I'd like to add that while everyone is aware of the brains that the BC brings to a cross, a close second is their work ethic. Once a BC blooded dog is convinced that they should direct their OCD tendencies towards catching bobcats, it can be a thing of beauty.

A similar situation exists in the technology world. We would likely all be still talking on corded phones if it weren't for the autists that write computer code. I'm simply creating the equivalent in the bobcat dog world, though it's taking me a while.

[twist]

In certain situations you say they are more efficient than nearly all hounds, please explain?

[Dan McDonough]

In much the same way a greyhound is faster than a scent hound. It's not just speed though. The way they use their senses on the run adds a lot to the equation. They have a predictive way of dealing with the world, while most hounds are reactive. Floyd Green said it best that way while describing the difference between his lurcher and his hounds at a lion tree. It's the same on the ground. Lurchers just have a different way of processing and reacting to things. If you haven't seen it for yourself, I can only come up different ways to describe it hoping you'll catch on. It's best if you witness it first hand.

It's not just the SH or just the BC, it's the combination of the two. Just make one and see. It's not hard and it would be a fun side project. What's one more dog?

[Dan McDonough]

I've been thinking over a few things and I want to bring up some observations I've made in the last couple of years.

A buddy of mine crossed a Plott male to a AA track GH female and made a dog he calls Wiley. I've only seen him on bear and coyote. He trails, locates and trees. The problem is that I have not gotten the chance to see him on cats or anything that would require him to tree without seeing the critter. This dog does nearly everything I would like to see in the UBD with the exception of a few things that I think a little BC blood would take care of, if added to the male side of the cross.

Add the successes that dog has had with the same from the July x GH male I have and it's looking like a very close example of the final product can be made with a simple first cross between a good GH female and a good hound male. It's close but not where I want to end up.

Many people would be very well satisfied with the above first cross and there's no doubt that it may be the cheapest and most easily produced version of an UBD. I would imagine that is the same reason you don't see everyone driving a Ford Raptor around instead of an F150.

Pair that with the success of the treeing hound x running hound breeding that's been out there working so well, for some time now. There could be some room for improvement between those two crossbred lines, but that's not quite where I'm headed. It is however, a big hint for those that have the tree x running hounds. If you ever want to see if there is more than what you already have, try a little sighthound blood in the right part of your pedigree and beat me to the end goal.

For me, I want a single dog to do what a pack is expected to do. I want one man that can not or does not have a way to have a pack of dogs, be able to go out and catch cats as easily as he would coon, or at least nearly as well. I just don't buy into the idea that only a pack can accomplish this. If Ben Lilly can look a landscape over and know where the lions will walk, so can a BC, or a cross with a BC brain lining the top side of the pedigree.

I'm going to add one more thought here. I have to be honest about this because, in order to be true to my original goal, I have to accept that I may be wrong. A couple of years ago, I got some July/Walker cross dogs and in the time that I've owned them, I've noticed that this line is wildly gifted in their athletic ability, not unlike so many other similar lines of this cross. I could easily cross these dogs into my Leopards and be satisfied with the cat catching machines that would likely produce. The thing that holds me back from doing just that is that I want a dog that operates on a higher level mentally. I don't like that those July/Walkers don't listen. At least NOT NEARLY as well as my lurchers do anyhow. I know that there are a lot more cat hunters than myself that feel the same. That is what I'm trying to overcome. It can be done.

Here's what's in my mind right now. I can train a lurcher to walk my backtrack and fetch a set of truck keys that I dropped a half mile back. All the while, that lurcher will still be all the hunting dog that I'd likely ever need. Find me a tree hound or a running hound or any cross of the two that can do that. It would be like asking my uncle Ray to do my taxes (he's retarded by the way), it's just not possible. I want it all.

This Spring could be the start of the Ultimate Bobcat Dog: Part II...stay tuned.

[al baldwin]

Dan wish you well, sure you must be one heck of a trainer, however believe you must be a bit of a dreamer. Al

[twist]

Al, you said it well!

[Dan McDonough]

That's not much to chew on. My point from the beginning, is that (from David's statement in his book) there has never been a dog that was made specifically for catching bobcats. I found that statement not only true, but a starkly accurate look at the breeds of dogs used for the task. I'm simply attempting to make one. I welcome any debate.

There are dogs that do certain things better than hounds, I'm just going to put those things into hounds and see how they improve. I've seen it already, so I know it's not impossible, not even close. I'm also trying to find a route that isn't very complicated, so that nearly anyone can do it.

[Tanner Peyton]

Hey Dan, I wanna thank you for taking the time to post all the information you're learning from your experiences here. I greatly enjoy reading them and I hope you continue to post about this subject. I also hope that even if this experiment doesn't work out that you don't give up and keep trying.

Thanks man.

[Dan McDonough]

Thanks Tanner.

[Leapordcur1]

Won't cold trail Won't tree. Purdy important traits for catching anything. You Sir are (beep) brain dead

[Dan McDonough]

[Dan McDonough]

Had a few rays of light this last week. The Mtn. Cur x Stag male that I have is a treeing machine now. It's not all sunshine as he is coon footed and I won't be using him to breed to. The real positive news is that he is the first lurcher I know of that is a real, natural born, tree dog. So...it is possible!

In light of this, while I'm not going to use the above male, I have a 1/2 BC, 1/2 Mtn. Cur female that is tucked away with a farm boy near me. She's a gamey, gritty, tree dog and I think I'll be making a litter with her. It's slow going but it's quality first. I feel like I'm building a cathedral and if I don't lay the corner stone correctly, it'll never stand the test of time.

Back on track !

[twist]

What you are doing is what has been going on for years in alot of hound guys backyard! Ive had border collies that catch and tree cats are they a cat dog??? Maybe in someones eyes. Can you cross dogs and get a dog that trees cat yes. Can one turn out to be outstanding on cats heck ya does that mean you can keep doing this outcross of different breeds and make an ultimate cat dog? Ya its fun to dream but hate to burst a bunch of bubbles on here, its not gunna happen. If you want to catch bobcats consistantly find a good breeder that has proven dogs that are working in your area and go with him. There are great bobcat hound out there but ultimate ones I dont think so. Andy

[Tanner Peyton]