Cold Trailing

A Place to talk about hunting Bobcats, Lynx.
mark
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Cold Trailing

Postby mark » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:29 am

We hear a lot of guys say they trail 12 hour old bobcat tracks for miles and catch them.
We also hear a lot of guys say that if your dogs make a couple loses that you are back to trailing and usually wont catch the cat.
If these dogs have a 12 hour old cat jumped and running and make a lose lets say a 15 minute lose and they are back to trailing. Why shouldnt they be able to trail it back up and catch it? I mean its only 15 minutes old compared to a 12 hour old track, should be a " smoker track" according to some. I know the cat is moving out in that 15 minutes but at some point it is going to stop or at least slow way down.
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby eskinner45 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:41 am

I was just worrying because I'm moving into town and I have two get rid of the two hounds I have now but I'd like to get one in the future I just don't want to have to get more than one if I don't have to
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby pegleg » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:56 am

Lots of times my bobcat tracks aren't that old. But some times of year they can run a older track then normal or in different areas they can run older tracks. When these things happen they don't seem to make the losses and those they do line out quicker. But unless the terrain or something else really gives the cat a advantage somehow on those good trailing tracks they should line back out and finish well. I don't think losses in and of themselves are the death knell of a race its when a wind scenting type dog gets kicked out enough there isn't that scent tunnel to follow. A hound that trails on the ground or by air as it can is more my type of hound. I've seen hounds trail right through excited air scenting dogs and they don't have the troubles. But if a hound is capable and smart enough to do either it doesn't seem to struggle as much regardless of where its hunted.
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby twist » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:42 am

If the cat doesn't get into poor terrian areas such as rocks and ect. the dog should be able to get the cat up and running again and should end in a catch. Also a well conditioned dogs ads to this also. Also my hunting theory and experiences are mostly in snow conditions. Andy
The home of TOPPER AGAIN bred biggame hounds.
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby merlo_105 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:08 am

Mark your funny, I think someone just wants to start a good debate war. I always wonder that same stuff though. This year I got plane out ran once where it took the dogs back to a cold trail was kinda funny worse part was I thought that one was a done deal a hour and a half before didn't think it had a prayer. Dog's brought it back up crossed the road got across another road no bobbles hit a blow down field they shut off so figured about dang time waiting for a dog to locate I just start walking in only 120 yards next thing I know I'm watching dog's walking logs trailing and so on and so forth walked with the dog's 300 yards while there grubbing this track they just had running. hahaha What a bunch of Cull's...
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby dwalton » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:33 pm

Mark: Roland Wilson told me time and time again if your dogs make a loose for 15 minutes the dogs would have to trail it up again. A lot of times a loose that is that old the cat will keep on trotting and be way ahead of the dogs again some dogs that I have owned could never get back up under them enough to tree them some it seemed to be no problem. As far as trailing bobcats 12 hours old I have trailed many that knowing when the wet snow from the even before and it being a frozen in track been able to trail tracks that I thought were over 12 hours old and tree it. Twice I know I have trailed tracks that were older than that because I had hit the cat on the other side of the mountain the day before, turn out the next day trail to the place I had turned out the day before. That said I have seen times when the track was minutes old and not be able to trail it. It all depends on the weather conditions [constance] and the time the tracks were made. AS you know being able to trail a cold track and catching it is two different things. Time and distance is the key to catching bobcat consistently, moving the track the farthest in the shortest amount of time. Good hunting Dewey
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby LarryBeggs » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:27 pm

I have seen a lot of cats caught with a dozen or more loses during a race. Some loses unded a minute. Some 30 plus minutes. The race might go on 2-4+ hours that way. But good dogs can catch those cats. Better dogs won't let those looses last so long and fewer will turn into those long races. On the coast even though it is wet and one would think you could run a colder track you can't. The dogs can run a hotter track better with the moisture but the scent doesn't stay there as long. I think the scent gets released by the moisture and is gone thus making a hot track better but a track dosnt stick around as long. I have seen over East where it is dryer dogs barely able to move a track at daylight in the dry snow. Start a track a couple miles away at 2 in the afternoon when the snow was softening up and have the dogs run the track back to where they could barely move it at 7 am.. Have also had a dog cold trail for twelve hours on the coast finally jump the cat and tree it in 20 minutes. But I believe that cat started moving soon after the cold trail job started. I know dogs can trail a twelve hour old track in the right conditions. But also know in the wrong conditions and a track is cold in 15 minutes.

.
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby mark » Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:12 am

So when we have good conditions we have cold nosed dogs and when the conditions aren't so good we have hot nosed dogs? Or should a dog that can trail a 12 hr old track be able to do it every day barring severe weather changes (rain,snow,fallout,etc?) This isn't about me not believing as i have seen amazing things done by dogs over the years. I don't consider my dogs as being cold nosed and have tried to put more trail into them by getting pups and buying older dogs that are suppose to be "cold nosed". I have hunted with quiet a few guys that are suppose to have cold nosed dogs but have never had one trail off without my dogs,and rarely start a track out from under them. Maybe i need to hunt the snow more and pay better attention to track age because on bare ground i would say a very high percentage of my caught tracks are under an hour old.
This isn't meant to be an argument just a good discussion because i think about my dogs lacking in the trailing department a lot after reading and listening to guys talk.
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby david » Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:43 am

Mark I have a question for you. About what percentage of your hunting trips do you go home without having had a cat race? Just curious, because when I was there, that would have been zero percent. I am not sure how you could improve on what I saw. It is not very often I have felt that way.

But if there is a way to do better, I am sure you will find it.
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby al baldwin » Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:49 am

Mark I will not keep a dog that can not run a 12 hr old bobcat with head up. On a serious side I doubt most bobcat tracks we get jumped are over an hour old. On occasions have trailed cats a long ways, believe most of those tracks the cat is just moving ahead of the dogs. It is so easy to miss a bobcat track that has spent time feeding back and forth on a road, then exits the road. An example, this winter the whole pack had worked up and down a brushy road a few times, going on and off the road, very little barking.
, only a couple dogs had opened a couple times. As we were about ready to give up, Tom decided to road the dogs back out that road, at a spot where I know the dogs had left that road earlier, a couple dogs left the road again. Very shortly, log then maggie opened, shortly all dogs were opening with a jumped bobcat that ran right back to the spot where those dogs left the road. We had about a ten minute race and treed a bob. I admit, I would not have roaded those dogs back out that road, as I wanted to get to another spot where we had seen good sign couple days before. Good job Tom H! Al
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby twist » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:15 am

Its all easier on the computer the longer some type the colder nosed the dogs get lol. Andy
The home of TOPPER AGAIN bred biggame hounds.
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby LarryBeggs » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:05 am

I would guess most of the tracks I trail on the coast are less than 2 hours old. The dogs I have now I don't see trail away from other dogs nor have other dogs trailed away from them. The day the dog I mentioned above cold trailed for 12 hours before treeing the cat there were two other guys with dogs there that day and that dog was the only dog that would work the cat. Seen her trail away from dogs at other times also. All be it that was over thirty five years ago Ă nd the dogs she was was hunting against aren't the caliper of cat dogs I see around now a days. I have seen lots of times after a five minute loose when the dogs had to trail the cat back up although those are usually little females or in bad scenting conditions. The only conditions I think a dog could trail a twelve hour old bobcat track are in the right kind of snow where the scent is trapped and released later when it warms up and releases the scent. Just what I have seen and a little bit if guessing. Take care,Larry
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby pegleg » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:38 am

I don't know about some areas but honestly my dogs can take a lion track WAY older then a bobcat. I've seen some work a bobcat I knew was pretty old but its different like they're just getting hints of scent. The coldest bobcat dog I've had would trail all over the place and way off track it seemed at times she had no idea what she was doing but then it'd finally warm up. The drawback was other dogs had to get used to her and some thought she was crazy too. She trailed on the ground on those older tracks like she did old lion but you could tell because it was sporadic and she did a lot of looking and going from bush to rock etc. She'd ignore bare areas. Probably would have been a easier dog to just turn loose and meet at the tree. But following her took serious faith sometimes. She had plenty in her self but some days I just talked bad about her right up to the jump or catch.
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby dhostetler » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:57 am

There is a lot of discussion about brains needed to catch a jumped bobcat but I also think there is a lot involved in brains needed for cold trailing. I used to have a problem with dogs getting rocked out, that changed when I got a Loose Bruce Walker, he would make up to a 500 yard circle to get on top of a cliff to move the track forward. He did not have the actual nose power of some of my blueticks but he more than made it up in his ability to know where to go. On bare south slopes on major looses that Walker was almost always the first one to figure out where it went.
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Re: Cold Trailing

Postby merlo_105 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:23 am

I never been one to care how old a track is or cared to put any thought into it. If my dogs aren't getting them going where there is cat then I'll find a dog who will. But since this is the discussion I'll add what I don't know. I think for the most part a person stops with nose power as soon as they see there getting game going on the norm. Mark you'r the exception to the rule. I became the exception this year. I want the dog's to trail out any form of scent what so ever I don't care if a cat farted and it linger's in the air 3 hours later I want them to try to do something with it. Needing brains to catch a jumped Bobcat I don't think so I got dogs this being there first season who can catch a jumped cat. I think you need brains to get a cat jumped. When your hunting snow your taking half the work away from the dog. You find the track and put them on it the right way or you freshen the track up and so on.

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