Track Speed

[live to hunt]

How are you judging / measuring track speed? It is an interesting topic to discuss and would be nice to be able to compare different dogs in different terrain?

[dwalton]

It is easy. Just look at the number of tracks started and the number of tracks completed. With bobcat hunting you should be completing a large percent of the tracks that start and almost all of the tracks you jump. If that is happening you have dogs that can move a track. Dewey

[Dan McDonough]

[dwalton]

Dan: As I understand Randy came up and bred to Russ Barney's Buster and Randy had a lot of that blood in his dogs. Buster has a lot of the same blood in his back ground as the dogs I brought out here. Not much on pedigrees but appears that some of the old time dogs show up several times. Even with the line breeding in the few I brought out
here there are a lot of different body types in the ones that I have seen. Dewey

[dwalton]

I checked my papers Dutchman Creek Sam shows up which is the sire of Cumberland Valley Tiglath and grand sire of Hobo. Which shows up in Randys dogs. Buster grand sires were Tig and Hobo. Most of the breeding in the dogs I brought out are Dutch Creek or Cumberland Valley. As you know you look at the breeding but the bottom line is does the breeding down the road for you work or not. Dewey

[Dan McDonough]

10-4, I think that Buster cross brought in Shaw's Fork Alice. Alice was basically the only dog out of the second big group of dogs Richard brought in from Tx. and was the only one that treed satisfactorily, of that group. I think I got the backstory on that from Ricky Love. He's got a fair amount of Alice in his dogs too.

At any rate, they have a way of thinking that's tough not to have around.

I have this litte half whippet, half jagdterrier that is a little demon on track that I wish you could see. He doesn't tree much so there's that but he's quite a surprise on track. His name is Diesel...craziest little thing I've seen in a while.

[SASS]

[dwalton]

What a lot of people don't realize is track speed has very little to do with how fast a dog can run. Track speed is all about the ability to move a track. I have seen dogs that did not look like they could run leave a bunch of dogs on a bobcat. Running a bear my be a different thing a dog does not have to be good on a track to run a bear with the scent funnel that they leave. Cold trailing one can be a different thing. Moving a track has a lot to do with brains and what a dog does with what they smell not being built like a greyhound that can run run at 40 miles an hour on a flat track sight chasing a fake rabbit. Dewey

[Twopipe]

In a previous post it was said that a dog with poor conformation can catch cats, which is true, I've seen it done.. It's all about track running style that makes cat catching speed. Good conformation, though, does allow a dog to perform more days in a row of hard running. Every dog that is trailing faster than a slow walk will over-run the track when the animal that is pursued makes a turn. One of the biggest parts of track speed is how fast they pick up the loss. Another thing is how a hound treats the scent. This article puts my idea of what a bobcat dog's track style should be into words.

The Hunter’s Horn
February, 1956
Page Twenty-eight & Twenty-nine

The July Hound of Yesterday—‘Quick to Jump, Runs to Catch’ –Sets the Pattern for Today
By Jack Davis, Temple, Ga.

Mr. July man, what do you want? Do you want a July hound patterned in performance and appearance after some other strain or do you want a hound with the characteristics of the old original Julys? Are you going to try to breed something to hush the criticism within the ranks of some other strains that do not have and
are not supposed to have the July’s characteristics? Or do you want to breed a July hound that is a true July hound, “quick to jump, runs to catch�?

It seems to me there is not enough uniformity within the strain today. Perhaps some breeders are breeding or oppositely different characteristics. Perhaps some are trying to breed a hound that will conform to the standard of performance set up by the breeders of other strains. As a student of the July strain, I have found a variation in type and performance of July hounds in different communities.

The July hound that attracted almost world-wide attention and gave birth to a burning desire with a multitude of people to own them, was a strain with certain fixed characteristics. Breeders would do well to recognize just what those characteristics were and set them up as their objective in their breeding program.

Old July, when a growing pup, was scorned and laughed to shame. This was because his appearance was so foreign to the ideal existing in the minds of men as to how a fox hound should look. In that day men of the South had as their ideal of appearance and performance a smooth-coated hound, with extremely long pendulous ears, that followed the track closely giving long, drawn-out, bawling musical notes. Old July was just the opposite. One thing is certain; it was not their appearance or long, drawn-out, musical tonguing that won the Julys their fame.

There came a day when old July had almost grown up and he jumped and ran a fox to death in the presence of a number of men. From that moment on his stock soared high. Now, what was the factor that brought about this sudden popularity? His performance, of course. There is simply no room for argument whatever. His style of performance was one of being quick to jump and running with a determination to catch his fox.

Let us analyze the slogan, “Quick to jump, runs to catch.� What enables the July, or any hound for that matter, to quickly jump a fox even when the strike is cold? If the hound moves with a leisurely gait, covering every crook and turn that a fox out hunting its dinner makes, that hound will never jump the fox unless the fox stops, and beds down to rest. Even then it will take a long time for the trailing hound to come up to him.

The hound that does not make every crook and turn, cuts a few corners and does some drifting, but does a lot of tonguing meanwhile, will be a long time getting up to its fox. A fox hearing a great clamor from a trailing pack will move faster and away, keeping its distance as long as possible.

A hound that does a lot of drifting, not following every crook and turn but coursing the general direction of the line of scent, not wildly but efficiently and fast in a semi-silent manner, will surprise it’s quarry, as the quarry, undisturbed and unaware of danger, leisurely feeds along its habitual range, and quickly jump it and put it to running. This is the characteristic that won the July hound the right to be called the strain that is quick to jump.

How did the July get its reputation of running to catch? Simply because the July hound ran with that
thought gripping and governing its whole being. A hound that runs to catch does not move forward and give tongue just because it has scent of a fox in its nostrils, but because that scent denotes there is a fox out ahead that it wants to catch. This type hound does not move ahead when it scents a fox in mechanical manner just as if that was its whole duty and it was interested in performing its duty only. Any sense of mechanical duty is thrown to the winds and the hound plunges excitedly ahead, its whole being stirred by the excitement of the chase and the determination to catch that fox, the scent being only the means of obtaining the end. It decidedly is not the end.
So, if the hound loses the scent it has not lost its chief object of interest. The scent being only secondary, it casts ahead knowing full well that the fox almost always moves in a forward direction and the fox is its primary object of interest, contacting the scent line again, confirming its belief that the fox went in that direction.

With a slower track-running type of hound interested in the line of scent primarily and the fox secondarily, it is different. When it makes a runover its chief concern is to find the line of scent again. It makes little difference to this type of hound whether the line of scent is found closer to the fox or farther away. This hound checks its pace and makes a tight or close circle searching mechanically for the scent and not for the fox. A pack of hounds of this type will give one a lot of hound music and precise, mechanical action, but not as much excitement as a pack that runs with ingenuity and intelligence—to be more exact, as the July hound of the late nineties ran.

July performance should be the July breeder’s watchword. It seems to me that we as breeders of a strain should agree on what that performance should be and breed for it, letting the chips fall where they may. In choosing breeding stock we should choose individuals within the strain who perform according to the accepted July standard. And these individuals should be from families that perform likewise.

We should refrain from becoming “pedigree happy� and using as breeding stock individuals who are poor performers from families who are poor performers, although these families have a traditionally good pedigree. Even if their forefathers were good hounds six or seven generations back, our chance of getting good hounds from such a mating is one of getting a throwback only.

Any family line can “run out.� We see the proof of this in some human families.

Neither should we use good outstanding individuals whose background is unimpressive, especially in the close up generations, nor individuals with a radical cross close up on another strain, for it is the July characteristics we want to intensify and preserve. Just about all outcrosses on strains that perform in a different manner to the July, made in the past, have been made by men who wanted to introduce other strain characteristics into the July strain, and not to intensify and preserve the July characteristics. Such people should get some hounds of another strain if they do not like the July. Let us not try to conform the July strain to the pattern of some other strain.

The strain in its true and original state had individuality. The tenets of that individuality were such that the breeders adopted a slogan that should be descriptive of every hound within the strain –“Quick to jump, runs to catch.�

Evidently the July hounds of the late nineties packed close and well and would hark to one another quickly, but they also displayed more individuality and ingenuity and executive ability than most strains. They were keenly intelligent and fiercely determined, never contented to be just a cog in a machine. A pack of them became a deadly cooperative group, not just a mechanical organization. Their speed and ability to stay close to their quarry, keeping it running for dear life, supplied the hunter with thrills from the beginning to the end of the race.

“Quick to Jump, Runs to Catch.� Three cheers for a July that is a July.

[Dan McDonough]

I've heard it said by some impressive July hound owners that there is a good chance that somewhere in the development of the July hound, a Saluki was used to create the style found with the Julys. Two of the biggest clues are first, the coat. In Julys you can find flagged tails, ears and legs but also the colors of coat which are also in the Saluki breed. The second thing is the running style of some of the Julys. Not all, but some of the Julys run harder as the race goes on. This is also a trait of the Salukis and is not something that is common in any other breed of dog not related to the Saluki.

It's a very interesting theory that has some real credence.

[Dan McDonough]

I'm sure that some simple DNA testing could confirm this theory.

[SASS]

Twopipe that is all great info and thanks for sharing it. That is a great point about how fast a dog can make up a loss and I guess would go hand in hand with a dog making less of them and smaller ones therefore making recovery quicker. I think that has a huge part to do with overall track speed.

All things being equal a dog with good conformation should out perform a dog with bad conformation. I don't think too many people would argue with that, but how often are all things actually equal? Also conformation is still somewhat subjective. People like different things so that might be a whole separate conversation in itself.

[perk]

Dan,
Could you please define 'harder' . You stated many july's run 'harder' as the race goes on.

Are you saying they run faster as the race progresses like go from 15mph to 17mph, do they put out more effort therefore working harder, are they more determined to finish the race, does their speed increase in comparison to the other dogs in the race (they don't slow at a rate as quickly as the others), do they make less misses than early.
Could any of that be attributed to the fact the longer you pursue game the closer you hope your hound will get. The smellier the game the fewer misses, the closer they get the more desire to catch.
I personally have never heard the saluki mentioned in their background, not saying it cannot be there, I also have never seen one really run harder as a long chase progressed, although admittedly the julys I have been around were mostly bred for speed and drive Fox/coyote pen hunting. The ones I've seen tend to fall off after 2-3 hours where other dogs tend to come to the front and dominate them (generalization and again haven't seen really top Julys)

Anyways mostly want clarity on the statement 'harder' bc I'm unsure how it's being used
Perk

[perk]

Also, unless harder means faster and that a dog is actually moving faster (like now we can document with GPS collars) the term harder becomes subjective thus very much less measurable and open to the interpretation of all of us who have different terms, opinions and experiences.

[Dan McDonough]

I'm likely to see one of those men this week. I'll pose your questions to him and see what he says. From what I've gathered, it applies to how fast the dog goes on a normal coyote race. I'm sure it can all be influenced by environmental factors. It seems to be a more general statement on their running style over many runs, all things factored in. Some may see it, others may not. He's as good of a dog man as I know so there's that. He's got the drive of several men and a good mind for it all and well versed with dogs across several disciplines. At this point it's just an astute observation until some DNA testing can be done for proof.