Track Speed

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Re: Track Speed

Postby Guest » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:28 am

There is so much to this post I kinda stayed away, but sitting here on rain delay thought why not. Most discussions on this topic I feel are more generalizations. Through the years I've been lucky enough to see a few dogs that just " have it". The breed or strain may vary but the but the ability to start and finish, I feel is what we are really talking about.
The start is kind of simple, a dog that gets gone and puts desired game on their feet, simple right? I run coyote, bear and cats, so desired track style is going to vary somewhat. A really cold nose is not the best coyote hound for our style, we have a ton of em and I don't prefer a dog that hits a day old track and wants to follow every move that yote made and take hours to get jumped. I like a dog to have enough nose to handle a poor track but brains enough to cover some country to find him. Our bear style is simular. Cats are a little different in that a dog has to take the hand he's dealt and move a lousy track miles and stay on it , more nose more brain in my opinion.
So I guess track speed needs to be broken down into two categories, moving a cold trail efficiently and moving the critter fast enough to stop him.
The article above from 1956 pretty well sums up desired traits we all have been searching for, unfortunately I haven't seen July hounds in my area that even come close.
I feed plott dogs cause they fit my style and show me enough fur to keep me happy.
Perk, many of the dogs I keep show this (harder, faster) trait as the chase goes on. I've tried to figure exactly what it is, but can still only speculate. For a time I thought it was simply when turned to a sight chase, or just the scent so good they just went to overdrive and desire to put fur in their teeth just made em "crazy"


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Re: Track Speed

Postby Bon Plott » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:28 am

There is so much to this post I kinda stayed away, but sitting here on rain delay thought why not. Most discussions on this topic I feel are more generalizations. Through the years I've been lucky enough to see a few dogs that just " have it". The breed or strain may vary but the but the ability to start and finish, I feel is what we are really talking about.
The start is kind of simple, a dog that gets gone and puts desired game on their feet, simple right? I run coyote, bear and cats, so desired track style is going to vary somewhat. A really cold nose is not the best coyote hound for our style, we have a ton of em and I don't prefer a dog that hits a day old track and wants to follow every move that yote made and take hours to get jumped. I like a dog to have enough nose to handle a poor track but brains enough to cover some country to find him. Our bear style is simular. Cats are a little different in that a dog has to take the hand he's dealt and move a lousy track miles and stay on it , more nose more brain in my opinion.
So I guess track speed needs to be broken down into two categories, moving a cold trail efficiently and moving the critter fast enough to stop him.
The article above from 1956 pretty well sums up desired traits we all have been searching for, unfortunately I haven't seen July hounds in my area that even come close.
I feed plott dogs cause they fit my style and show me enough fur to keep me happy.
Perk, many of the dogs I keep show this (harder, faster) trait as the chase goes on. I've tried to figure exactly what it is, but can still only speculate. For a time I thought it was simply when turned to a sight chase, or just the scent so good they just went to overdrive and desire to put fur in their teeth just made em "crazy"


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Re: Track Speed

Postby Dan Edwards » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:24 am

perk wrote:The ones I've seen tend to fall off after 2-3 hours where other dogs tend to come to the front and dominate them


It isn't just the ones you have seen. Its almost all of them unless you get into the strains that have been bred for the 3 day hunts. I'm quite skeptical of their lineage though but who knows. I'm a huge fan of the July hound but I know what they are and what they aren't. What you have seen is very much a reality and even more so when put in a pen. On the outside it isn't near as noticeable but it is still there nonetheless. The Saluki deal makes zero sense to me but again who knows.
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Re: Track Speed

Postby Dan Edwards » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:37 am

Bon Plott wrote:The article above from 1956 pretty well sums up desired traits we all have been searching for, unfortunately I haven't seen July hounds in my area that even come close.


That's cuz July men are just as breed and kennel blind as all other strains/breeds of hounds men. Ive been in and out of the running dog deal so many times but ultimately after trying all other breeds, strains, crosses, curs, and you name it I am right back to where I started. There just isn't another type that can do what they do IMO....not when you find the right ones anyhow.
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Re: Track Speed

Postby perk » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:46 pm

Bon Plott, I have seen dogs I think run harder much harder as they close the door on their quarry. By harder I mean more determined and with an intensity you can see in movement and in voice. Dogs that are straining so hard to catch the game their voice changes, they have what I consider a more wild violent sprint to them trying to cover that last little distance to the catch.
Had a male dog one time that after he laid eyes on a Fox he was unstoppable for the rest or the chase, just wanted to get his quarry. He had amazing track speed in the open on a red Fox and would pull away in the lead from packs of 60 hounds regularly. On a grey he stayed up front but wasn't as good a track dog until he played eyes on it. Then he was a different animal.. wouldn't say the term was he ran harder but definitely with a different intensity.
I see that run harder trait in a lot of foxhounds, however I'm not certain the harder I mean is same as the one Dan's buddy's mean, that's why I wanted some clarity
Last edited by perk on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Track Speed

Postby macedonia mule man » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:49 pm

I'm with you Dan, Most breeds and strains of breeds that Are supposed to be the ultimate always have been disappointing. that green grass on the other side of the fence withers pretty fast for me.
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Re: Track Speed

Postby dwalton » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:46 pm

I have seen dogs that ran harder and give it all to make the catch. The best bobcat dog I every owned I could tell within a few barks if she was cold trailing, moving a good track, jumped or about to catch a bob. She would just squeak when she was about to catch.
Think about the dogs that were raised 50 to 100 years ago? People hunted to kill for meat or furs other than some that hunted just to hear a good hound run a track. Don't you think that with the pen running, field trails, competition hunting and no kill mentality people to day for the most are breeding a different dog than yesteryear? I forgot less open ground to hunt and to many people. Good hunting Dewey
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Re: Track Speed

Postby Bon Plott » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:58 pm

Dan, I think you said it all in your last sentence...."not when you find the right ones anyhow". There are excellent hounds in most breeds and strains, and the quality varies region to region and kennel to kennel. I've said it before, and stick to it, take the top hounds from the various running breeds and the performance will be very similar, same with the tree dogs, a top black and tan ain't much different from a top bluetic etc. etc. Once you get to that level focus on the color you like 8-) run hard breed smart cull hard.there is no room for average

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Re: Track Speed

Postby Dan Edwards » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:23 pm

Bon Plott wrote:There are excellent hounds in most breeds and strains, and the quality varies region to region and kennel to kennel. I've said it before, and stick to it, take the top hounds from the various running breeds and the performance will be very similar, same with the tree dogs, a top black and tan ain't much different from a top bluetic etc. etc.


I completely agree. It's just easier to find in some breeds than in others and may even cost a lot less.

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