Track Speed

[SASS]

I am still pretty new to all of this but I have traveled around the US hunting with different friends and seeing a ton of different dogs. The one thing I always notice is how they run a track and how fast.

So couple parts to this post but first what line of dogs have you seen that consistently produced dogs with the best track speed. Also I know there is more than one variable on how fast a dog is capable of moving tracks other than the tracks themselves and environmental conditions. That is how much scent they can smell and process and how fast they can run. Obviously the first determines how much of the second they can use. I had a mentor of mine tell me a dog can only move a track as fast as his nose and brain will let him. So any other thoughts on the subject would be greatly welcomed too. Is this a trait that any of you really focus on?

I have posted this in the bobcat section as I have been told by the people I hunt with that steady pressure is what gets cats treed or caught on the ground. So I would love to hear everybody's thoughts on the subject.

[pegleg]

Are you differentiating between air/body scent and track ground scent? Not all dogs run both or can do so equal.

[SASS]

[kickemall]

To answer one part of your question, the most consistent line that I have seen with track speed are Mike Kemp's dogs. There are also some guys around here (northcoast of Ca.) that have been loosely breeding varmit dogs for 50 years that can hold a track and are consistently speedy. I'm sure theres plenty more but those are ones I've been around enough to be able to say they're consistent.

[dwalton]

Track speed is a relative thing depending on where you hunt and what you hunt but most of all how you hunt. A lot of hunters don't have the patiences to let there dogs cold trail wanting to hear that jump race. Be it fox or bear that you are hunting there is not much need to cold trail but cat hunting [bobcat or lion] you had better be able to move a cold track if you are not a snow hunter.
There is one thing common to dogs that can really move a track and that is running dog blood or type. That said there are some blue ticks and other breeds out there that can be good track movers but they are usually smaller tight waist running dog looking or with some cur in them. Catching cats it is a game of cold trailing connecting the places of scent. By that with cats be here in the northwest or the deserts there are dead spots with no scent that the dogs have to get past. As Peg said the best dogs at moving a cold track will put their head down and pound a track if needed but will work with head up working off brush most of the time. That type of dog is hard to find. We have the old boys[ most of them gone] that brought the running dog blood out here to thank for the fast track moving dogs of today. For a good cat dog it does not matter how fast they can run to be a top cat dog it is how fast they can move a cold track. You have time and distance as a factor in treeing a cat you need to move that track as far and as fast as you can before the sun melts the frost or the dew leaves or the rain washes it out or the sun over heats the dogs. You also need a dog that competes for the front of the track be it a jump or a cold track thus leap frogging a track far faster then one or two dogs pounding the track out. You need smart dogs that move a track but not running wild looking and not getting anything accomplished. There are some fast track moving dogs that come out of Arizona that have cur dog in them that I have seen hunt that can really cover the ground on a old lion track. I have seen hounds come a long ways far better dogs are available today. They have come from the blood hound fox dog cross, to treeing walkers to people trying to breed a true bobcat dog. I also feel that a lot of people have not seen hounds that move a track fast enough to catch cat and fox very constantly but there are more dogs available that can do that. Good hunting Dewey

[SASS]

Thanks for all of that info Dewey.

The fastest track pushers I have seen have come from a man in Norcal with pure McDuffie Leopard curs and also I have seen a few Walker/running dog crosses as fast. The pure (dont really know how pure) running walkers I have seen were not as fast on track as the treeing walker/running crosses or curs I have seen though they probably ran faster. The ones I seen had a tendency to over run their nose and had to make up a lot of losses. Just my observation from the few I have seen.

[dwalton]

With any breed of dog you pick the ones that move a tract, tree, handle or hunt like you want and breed them for yourself. With all breeds there are dogs within that breed that don't do what you want. So you don't pick to hunt or breed that dog. I have Leopards also and they probably have some of the same blood as the ones you speak of. I will not be without a Leopard or part Leopard in my pack but they will never replace the hounds or hold up to hard hunting like a good outside bred running dog. Not that long ago I hunted 12 hours a day and up to two weeks without a break, it takes a tough and in shape dog to do that not many dogs today are bred for that kind of hunting. But they are out there if a guy as you said you have taken the time to travel around to see what is out there. It sure can be a eye opener. Good hunting Dewey

[al baldwin]

These are just my thoughts based on my limited experience. Would be tough for me to determine what dogs tracked faster without seeing dogs work the same tracks in the same conditions. Also have found it difficult to judge dogs abilities based on one hunt. Have noticed over the years dogs looks had little to do with how they moved a track. Seen some dogs that were not impressive to look at, however after hunting with them a few times realize looks were only skin deep. Yes I like a nice built hound as well as anyone, however some of best, & toughest dogs I have hunted with would have never won a UKC bench show. Al

[kickemall]

For Dewey -
In one of your above posts you said, " Be it fox or bear that you are hunting there is not much need to cold trail". Could you clarify that a little? I'm not sure why someone wouldn't want dogs that could cold trail those? Thanks.

[dwalton]

With fox and bear hunters that I have been around they seem to want to have a track up and running and breed and hunt for the race not cold trailing. With fox there seems to be a lot in the areas that have lots of fox and a some of guys I talk to that will just put a call out in the road and play it ,checking the road by turning on the head light seeing a fox by the call and tail gating. In areas fox and bear baiting is done taking the tracks off the feeder. Cameras are also used to see the time of day the animals move. Most fox hunters in this area hunt at night or mornings before day light to hit fox not wanting to trail a fox up. If you are guiding or hunting big bears only it is good to have some dogs that can cold trail up that old track. It has been my experience that fox and bear hunters are not as patient as cat hunters wanting to run a track not listen to the dogs cold trailing. With good fast moving cold trailing dogs there is not much of a jump race on bobcats unless the cat has been educated by none bobcat dogs. For me fox and bear hunters are a different type of person with different hunting styles than that of a cat hunter. Just my opinion. Each to their own style or game they have to hunt or choose to hunt. Dewey

[macedonia mule man]

Short cutting to a hot track has little if no affect on a dogs ability to cold trail, jump and run game. I have a dog now that was started and ran in coyote pens where he did not cold trail ever, all he had to do was throw his head in the air and go run something. The first time I cast him in real woods he tried just that and it didn't work out. Even when the other dogs jumped, he couldn't get much of the game. In three weeks he was cold trailing and jumping his own game and picking up check behind the same pack. Dogs that like to smell and run game learn fast.

[SASS]

[kickemall]

Dewey -
Thanks for the reply. What you said makes sense and was what I thought you were thinking but I wasn't sure. I like dogs, and often need them if I want to run anything, that can cold trail whatever I'm hunting so when you mentioned that about cold trailing I was curious if I was missing something. Take care,

Dave

[twist]

Persistent track speed and heads up no mistake jump speed catch most cat. Andy

[SASS]