PRICING A HOUND ?

A Place to talk about hunting Bobcats, Lynx.
Nolte
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby Nolte » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:27 am

I could tell stories about guys selling dogs on trial and getting them back messed up. I was one of them once. So it can definitely swing both ways. My dog was a hard tree dog with his belly to the tree style. Buyer told me he wouldnt tree. He had holes like all dogs but treeing was his best attribute. Got him back and he wouldn't get within 30 yards of a bear tree the first time with me. Coaxed him in and once he got to the tree, lit bit up like always. The light bulb went on right then, the guy trialing had some tree fighters in his pack. So I lost him for 2 weeks and them took another 2 to straighten him out. Was gonna put him back up for sale when he got turned into road hamburger by a car. Figured out right then that selling dogs ain't my game.

So I guess my point is best way to buy a dog is to go hunt with it. If you like it buy it. You'll never get to test all situatuons anyway in a couple weeks. If you want it hunted in your area, then pay for the guys travel expenses. Now if you buy sight unseen by a guys word, well then either completely trust the guy or be prepared to get shafted. A guy once told me that buying dogs is a lesson just depends how expensive that lesson is.

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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby F&M BLUES » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:27 am

Nolte you are 100% right.
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby 1bludawg » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:35 pm

I agree Nolte,the best way is to buy a dog under the tree! There's less risk for both owner and buyer.
I knew a man that would get dogs on trial for the sole purpose of training his young dogs .
There can be crooks on both sides of a dog deal!
david
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby david » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:33 pm

I don't even know how to make this post, but somehow I have to try.

There are people who want to enjoy bobcat hunting for their first time. They may have already struggled very hard and had little if any success. For some people that doesn't make them want to give up, it makes them want it even more. They are extremely motivated to make this happen in their lives.

And that is the type of attitude it takes for most of us to ever make it as a bobcat hunter.
We don't have relatives or close friends to hand all this to us, so we become more and more motivated to put in the work to make it happen. Especially for those without snow, there comes a point where we realize this just ain't going to happen without a broke dog to get some pups trained, so we at least know we are training them on bobcat and not whatever else is out there.

It is hard.

I have had a life long breeder/bobcat hunter from snowless regions say it is "impossible" to do this and have straight cat dogs, without having a straight cat dog to begin with.

Most of us can't afford a check dog. But feel maybe we could do it with a young dog that is cat minded already and has a lot of experience and is pretty reliable.

I said all that to say this:

If I have described you, YOU ARE VERY VULNERABLE.

THE WORSE YOU WANT SOMETHING, the MORE VULNERABLE YOU BECOME.

You WANT TO BELEIVE there is a dog out there for you. You want to beleive it will be the missing puzzle piece for success. And you WANT TO beleive the man selling you on a dog is honest.

There are plenty of people who are honest, but don't really know their dog, and accedently mis-represent a dog to you. Or they know some things and are filling in the blanks for the rest. This includes people who do well with the dog and who assume you will do well also, but they have never hunted where you hunt or in the style you hunt.

That is another topic.

THIS IS A WARNING.

I know of men on this website who have dealt dishonestly in the past. And I mean, who really should be in prison.

There are men who have no conscience whatsoever, and will take your last dime if they can, and don't care if you spent your babies only diaper money on their dog.

I know of a man who routinely sells bobcat dogs to young hunters on here, and he is taking advantage of their vulnerability in the same manner as a pedophile takes advantage of a child's vulnerability. He is an artful con-man. And you won't know you are being worked. You don't know you are being worked right now.

There are plenty of people on here that I know negative things about. We all have negative things about us. That is OK. I can forgive a lot of negative things, and all my best freind s and family members have them.

But when I know of some one who takes advantage of people's vulnerabilities without a conscience, and I know about it, it makes me very angry and mostly angry at myself while I sit and watch it happen saying nothing. That is what I have always said: nothing. And when I hear of another young man who has been conned by this guy, I feel like it is my fault, because I should have said something. If the dog actually is a good dog, you are being used as laundry detergent along a crooked chain.

All I am saying right now people is, be very careful.

And I don't want to say this but if that man shows up on here again workiing the crowd, he is risking being exposed. I won't watch it any more.

You sir, are a predator.
Last edited by david on Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
merlo_105
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby merlo_105 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:59 pm

Damn David that was deep. Just so you know there is nothing negative about me, my mom said so. I agree, with most everything everyone said. But besides from the con men. A lot of dogs not working out for the new owner is cause of the new owner. Probably more so with the older generation, guys who have it set in stone they know everything and there way is the way. For the younger guys go hunt with the dog, watch how they handle there dogs pay attention to every detail... That goes for everyone. I don't know how to price a hound I try not to sell anything unless it goes to someone I know and can trust. Young dogs I would just rather give away and receive feed back on how there turning out. So I'm no help on the pricing haha.
mark
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby mark » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:07 am

Trying to remember if i sold a dog to David???????
david
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby david » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:21 am

Mark, that is the problem with not naming the person. Probably should, but I want to give him a chance to Exit gracefully. I have never hunted with him or bought a dog from him but I keep encountering people who have and Got nothing, or, much worse, ended up involved in something they should not be involved in. And Yes, he can sell snow to an Eskimo, because he doesn't sell snow, he sells himself so you will Fill his sales quota and not even know it.

The weird part is, he doesn't need the money. It must be some kind of a conquest. Maybe an adrenaline rush. Who knows. But I am tired of encountering his victims and those being groomed for it.

I wish there was some kind of registry like for registered sex offenders, so potential dog buyers can check the list for predators in the neighborhood.
Last edited by david on Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
mark
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby mark » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:46 am

I think i have encountered one of his customers too....... He has a hard time keeping quiet also.
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby SASS » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:16 am

David that was a great post and your first two paragraphs of your first post is close to where I am at when it comes to cat hunting.

Your post made me think about a great quote:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby 1bludawg » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:48 am

David , I believe i've talked to 2 or 3 of this guys victims also .
I know you just want to help people but sometimes problems can arise from being honest .Some people will just not believe you,some will want to kill the messager and if you also sell a dog or two from time to time it looks like sour grapes or jealousy on your part .
Another thing to think about is maybe he's actually sold a good dog or 2 ???
If we're thinking about the same person he'll get a dog (on trial ) from someone that's selling one and try to sell it at a higher price while he has it!!!
david
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby david » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:54 am

1bludawg wrote:David , I believe i've talked to 2 or 3 of this guys victims also .
I know you just want to help people but sometimes problems can arise from being honest .Some people will just not believe you,some will want to kill the messager and if you also sell a dog or two from time to time it looks like sour grapes or jealousy on your part .
Another thing to think about is maybe he's actually sold a good dog or 2 ???
If we're thinking about the same person he'll get a dog (on trial ) from someone that's selling one and try to sell it at a higher price while he has it!!!


You bring up some excellent points. They are why I have not said anything through the years while my buddy's are getting sodomized or being groomed for it. I have to answer to God for that, and I fear Him a lot more than whatever fallout is on its way.

It won't be hard to find impure things about me. I have a whole list of them for anyone that wants it.

I haven't sold a dog or pup in over ten years and it might be another ten years before I do, but there are plenty of other points of attack on me. And yes, I expect them, because to know this man is to like him, because that is how a good con man rolls. I am sure he has a lot more friends than I do, and some of them depend on him to launder dirty dogs.

And I might add that some of his friends are long time friends of mine who have not bought a dog from him...yet. But they are being groomed for it via email and telephone. If I try to warn them, they just can't beleive it.
So I finally have to say you do what you want. I did what I could. It is like trying to talk someone down from a cult. He is like the man with the bag of candy in the children's playground. And every time he comes on here it is to display his bag of candy, and it is so easy for me to see, but I guess it is because I am old and not so vulnerable any more.

I can't really think of any advantages to myself for speaking up about this and I can think of a basketful of problems it creates. But a lot of the guys that have been hurt by him are young enough to be my children. They might have a lot to loose by speaking up, so they don't. I have more to loose by not speaking up: my dignity. The same thing I would loose by seeing a child get raped and not doing anything about it.

Justice is slow but it is sure.
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby david » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:29 am

I have to add that I have nothing against good men selling good dogs. I wish everyone could sell good dogs when they don't need them or need some cash. And there are top dog men on here that don't sell dogs And I wish they would because their family could benefit from it.

And as far as pricing goes, if a man raises and trains a good bobcat dog, It doesn't matter the price, it will not cover that mans cost; if you truely look at the big picture.

And that is another reason the Candy Man is SO attractive.
david
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby david » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:18 pm

I have to apologize for something and I am not sure exactly what it is. I think it is to everyone who reads these posts of mine, and feels dirty like they just wallowed in some kind of a pig sty. That is how I feel, along with feeling sick, and I just want to take a bath. This man is not my enemy. He is a man with problems, which pretty well describes me also. I just want him to stop hurting people, and/or I want to protect my friends from a habitual predator. I have agonized over this for years and just was not smart enough to think of a better way to deal with it.

I am sorry to all for dragging this thread and this web site into these places. And I appreciate Merlo and others who have tried to lift it back up where it should be.

Hopefully I can have the discipline to let them do it.

As you were.
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Dan McDonough
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby Dan McDonough » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:04 pm

Might as well come out with it. Like all things, it will pass.
If you aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made of meat!?!
Nolte
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Re: PRICING A HOUND ?

Postby Nolte » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:06 pm

merlo_105 wrote: But besides from the con men. A lot of dogs not working out for the new owner is cause of the new owner. Probably more so with the older generation, guys who have it set in stone they know everything and there way is the way.


Merlo,
I'm not so sure it's an older generation vs younger generation thing. It is sometimes a variety of factors. It could be that the guy buying is hearing what he wants to hear because he is searching for that missing piece. Or that the hunting styles are just completely different.

It could also be that the guy selling could legitimately no know or could also be misrepresenting and blowing smoke.

With all that said, I've seen very few dogs who were real game catchers not go right at it when given the chance in a similar environment where they were from. Most of the time you get them on a track and it's go time. It doesn't take a whole lot of time to figure out that the dog has the right stuff.

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