BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

[VARMIT HUNTER]

I knew a guy in NC that had TW and he did not deer hunt but his brother did, if he had a dog start running deer real bad he would let his brother hunt it during season and 1/2 the time his brother would call him in 2 or 3 weeks and tell him to come get the dog because it was treeing coons in the day time and not running deer. did not work every time some of them where just better deer dogs LOL. I did it once with an English redtick female at 18 months old she decided she liked deer one fall so for 2 weeks she was a deer dog. She flat quit running deer, you could turn her loose in a block of woods with 20 deer dogs running and she would tree coon in that block of woods all night , I guess some just break themselves or they do not like sore feet. Growing up I never would have believed it either until I experienced first hand.

[VARMIT HUNTER]

Oh I agree with you Mr. Baldwin keep your young dogs in good company for sure is the best practice. One of my neighbors was a fellow by the name of Mr.Orlin James he had a nice strain of running hounds that were not super trashy. he was a fox and cat hunter.

[macedonia mule man]

I take my dogs to the woods to watch them hunt, start cold trailing by body language, watching them keying off each other's body language, then opening a little, then jumping and going to a full race. If the race sounds like good game, has a patter of good game on the Garmin and I'm enjoying it to the highest degree WHATS THE PROBLEM? When I see it a deer I just tone them to the truck and jump something else. Sooner or later I'm on a fox or cat.

[al baldwin]

[VARMIT HUNTER]

None taken Al , I just know I learned a lot by hunting with different types of hounds on different game and with different houndsmen during my time in NC. Learning things that are considered blasphemy in other parts of the country, simply because people do not know or have never experienced some things first hand. And everyone has their own biases and opinions we are after all only human. Like you said a lot of people will shoot dogs they think are running deer. The truth is a lot of young deer and turkey's are actually killed by loose yard dogs not hounds. I have seen it first hand, shepherd cross mutts.

[al baldwin]

Thanks varmint hunter. True yard dogs can kill young deer. However, know for sure a pack of conditioned hounds can catch & kill mature deer. In my opinion dogs do not live long enough to allow them to break themself by running deer until they are sick of it. How long would that take? How many deer would be killed? Operating on that theory would dogs that run bobcat all the time become sick of running bobcat & start running deer or other trash? Yes there are strains of dog that cause very little trash problems when started alone or with clean mentors. However I can/t recall a young dog that had trashy hounds as mentors that refused to run trash. Thanks Al

[perk]

Scrub, if you werent hearing those 2 older dogs that were trailing behind in the race giving tongue, I think that woulda been a good time to give the juice. I trust my dogs that come find me when something is running a deer or yote, but i listen for the dogs I know and trust all the time, they dont get a lot of lead way if they are young, before they get corrected one way or another.

Got a buddy who fox/cat hunts with foxhounds and had a few curs he hunts too, he lets the curs run out in the yard all the time they break themselves off deer. Seen more than a few dogs that were started hunting with deer dogs that would not run one would only run fox. Know of old timers who used to let them run deer til they broke themselves, usually didn't take but a summer, and these turned into dogs that caught foxes regularly and would turn their nose up at a deer.
Al, a old breeder up here always said that if a pack of dogs couldn't run down and kill a grown deer in 3 hours it was time to get a new stock of dogs.
All that being said, I like to keep mine in good company and hate to let them get away with a deer race, but if they are gonna run him run him to catch.

[al baldwin]

Good to hear from you Perk. You must have hunting with a different stock of dogs than I ever have, dogs that I have seen allowed to run deer any length of time have been very very hard to break where they can be trusted to cold trail a bob thru deer after deer before getting that bob jumped. I hunted with a dog once that the owner held back most time until the cat was jumped. then if she crossed a hot deer before she reached the pack. race was on & she could put that deer in the water or baye it in less time than I would have thought possible. I often thought why does he keep that dog? Then one day we were working a rough cat & it was giving the dogs a tough time. Got that dog turned in. lucky she reached the pack without crossing a hot deer. Long story short, she made me realize why he kept trying to break that dog. That female was allowed to run loose the first couple years of her life & developed a love for running deer. These things I write about I learned in the school of hard knocks. Al

[scrubrunner]

Hi Perk, good to see you on here. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Those 2 older dogs are only 4-4.5 years old, they are always in the pack doing their part.I said 1 was following not opening, she doesn't have a very good mouth, the kind pack covers up, a little chop that's hard to pick out, I've got to really listen and concentrate on her to hear her in the pack except on pick ups and such. The other older dog was in the pack running the deer.
I don't get chance to run cat very often and was really proud of the way they were glued to that cat, sloshing in the water, cross the repod through push rows up n down side of road. I saw the cat at about the 1 hour mark and was pretty sure this is fixing to be a caught cat. Made a couple pretty bad loses, 1 about a minute the other probably 4-5 minutes. Little while later deer crosses with hounds in hot pursuit.
Note: 4 other deer had already came out of the block while I know they were running the cat so they had been all over deer the whole time.

[perk]

Scrub, you sure the cat hadn't slipped across? We know all game uses same basic crossings, or at least everywhere I have ever been they do. I've seen deer come out after a fox has crossed on same spot, if you didn't know your dogs you would be worried, I've even seen a deer I. The middle of my pack before because it kicked up as they passed and was trying to get away. Btw mine are so fast the deer couldn't get better than 3rd place in the pack lol.
Happy hunting to all

[scrubrunner]

Perk,I was hoping that was the case but I rode around, saw 2 deer together walk across the rd. Roaded 2.5 year old and old dog that was running in pack on the deer. When they got there they lit it up and I lit them up all the way to on top of the truck. Did same with old dog that was just following and 3 yr old, they just stopped n sniffed, I bumped em anyway for sniffing n they trotted on up rd. When hunting I trot whole pack in front of truck a lot, have seen many deer cross rd in front of them with no problems. Always befor when a pup would strike a deer all the others would boil in there check it out then boil back into the road hunting the truck. I'll fix em, heck I can't ruin em, their ruined already. But I won't trust any of them as much as I have.
On a brighter note my deer dog pack is kind of weak, if I move these over to the dark side, they can run something.

[Bluedog88]

I see bobcat circle towards the end of the race or zigzag also if there jumped. My 3 year old pup went from straddling a track to running head up cutting through a the zigzaging and circling cat to catch.

[VARMIT HUNTER]

I think there are different strains in all hound breeds that are more prone to certain things than others training is the key they will not learn anything in the pen for sure, establishing the fact that you are the pack leader is key imho, I can not tolerate hard headed or stubborn hounds, I prefer dogs that hunt to please not hunt just to hunt, and I am talking about the get deep quick style that runs out of the country, if some one likes em that is fine they are just not for me. I'll take a hound with brains everytime. One can not make a dog go hunting but one can train them to hunt what you want. Scrub I road my dogs the way you do as well in the places I can good way to gut check em that is for sure. I was road hunting judge one night in the Cookson hills several years ago and about 11 hogs crossed the road about 40 yards in front of us Judge just stopped and sat down looking at them like he was counting them about 30 seconds after the last one crossed he just trotted on down the road, about a half mile later he stuck and treed a coon after about 1/4 mile race. Good hunting to all

[macedonia mule man]

al, I'll tell you a discussion the oldest cat hunt I know told me concerning dogs and things they do. Fred is still living, streightest and most honest man I know. No scence of humor and definitely no BS, his sister told me last week he is still driving (91) Fred walked into the feed store one day for a quarter lb. willow leaf pole butter beans. I started weighing him up and he came out with, how is your cat hunting comming? I said not good. Having trouble finding cat dogs are you he asked. Sho nuff I replies. His reply, there are probably still some left but you probably can't find one because the people that have them don't know it themselves. I kinda gave him a sideway glance and he answered the eye glance with, you can't train a real cat dog nor can you breed for one. I looked at him with I'm sure a blank face and he gave me a rare half ass grin and said, the only real cat dogs we had were dogs that ran fox most of their life, quit fox and started liking cat. When one did that the owner call us to come get him or her or he was going to kill him or her. A true fox hunter couldn't handle a leaving a fox race for a cat. All hunting in our part of the country in Fred's day was outside fox. No pen. No deer or coyote. Ninety five percent of the families fox hunted on weekends fox intertainment. The most sobering thing and dissapointing comment he made was we bred some of these dogs and never got a real cat dog. Some were good but never as good as their parents. So dogs do quit types of game and go for another. I have no explanation, dogs do funny and unexpected things.

[macedonia mule man]

Further note, Fred said most of the dogs were black/tan colored not tricolored. Most fox dogs were tricolored in this area in those days. ?????????