BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

A Place to talk about hunting Bobcats, Lynx.
johnadamhunter
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby johnadamhunter » Tue May 22, 2018 4:40 pm

macedonia mule man wrote:Further note, Fred said most of the dogs were black/tan colored not tricolored. Most fox dogs were tricolored in this area in those days. ?????????

Mule man,
I got a call a few months ago from a deer hunter who had a dog that was quitting good deer races to run cat. He said he’d give him to me. I was very excited for a few minutes then The fog cleared. It seems he would run the deer a short distance and about the time the younger faster dogs got to him he’d pull off and find a “cat” to run alone.
I didn’t go get the dog. Maybe I missed a real deal catdog!
John


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al baldwin
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby al baldwin » Tue May 22, 2018 9:56 pm

MULE MAN I have been told by a few fox hunters in northern california some old dogs will stop running fox in that area, they believe it is because of the thick brush. However could one trust that dog to trail a bob for an hour or so thur fox after fox before getting that cat jumped? I can relate to your old friend who stated it is hard to find a good bob dog, some of the best bob dogs in my experience have not reproduced themselfs. One example, friend of recent advertised for a bob dog to breed to that could do it all by himself with no holes in him. The one dog he found was a male in california owned by a well known fox, cat & bear hunter. Guess what, turns out no one knows much at all about his lineage. However, there are some breeders on the west coast who own a line of dogs that produce bob dogs, not all the pups make the grade, but all pups do not make the grade from any line I have ever heard of. It has been my experience most young dogs hunted in clean company give little trouble running trash. I have got a few pups from hunters dogs who told me their line of dog was hard to trash break, however, starting those pups at a young age with mentores whom were good clean hounds, found those pups to be easy to trash break. Yes, ecollars have made it much easier to trash break dogs and allows one to have much better control of the pack. Please continue hunting as you please & thanks Al
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby al baldwin » Tue May 22, 2018 9:56 pm

MULE MAN I have been told by a few fox hunters in northern california some old dogs will stop running fox in that area, they believe it is because of the thick brush. However could one trust that dog to trail a bob for an hour or so thur fox after fox before getting that cat jumped? I can relate to your old friend who stated it is hard to find a good bob dog, some of the best bob dogs in my experience have not reproduced themselfs. One example, friend of recent advertised for a bob dog to breed to that could do it all by himself with no holes in him. The one dog he found was a male in california owned by a well known fox, cat & bear hunter. Guess what, turns out no one knows much at all about his lineage. However, there are some breeders on the west coast who own a line of dogs that produce bob dogs, not all the pups make the grade, but all pups do not make the grade from any line I have ever heard of. It has been my experience most young dogs hunted in clean company give little trouble running trash. I have got a few pups from hunters dogs who told me their line of dog was hard to trash break, however, starting those pups at a young age with mentores whom were good clean hounds, found those pups to be easy to trash break. Yes, ecollars have made it much easier to trash break dogs and allows one to have much better control of the pack. Please continue hunting as you please & thanks Al
macedonia mule man
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby macedonia mule man » Tue May 22, 2018 10:03 pm

John, Ive had several dogs that people have brought to me because they were bad to run cat when they were hunting something else. Nothing has ever turned out,bUT if anybody offers you one call me ig you don't take it. I'm a sucker.
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby Andyva » Tue May 29, 2018 11:21 am

Tree dogs that break themselves off of deer by running deer. Based on my experience, which isn't as much as some here, and largely my opinion, there is a reason for that, if you study them closely. Look at their build, and their feet and legs. Then compare that to the look of a good bred running hound. Most of the "naturally broke" dogs I have seen were bowed in the front end like a bulldog, had big flat paddle feet, were extremely large, and sometimes kept too fat. Any one or a combination of these. They quit deer because they can't ever get close enough to them to keep up with them and it hurts too much. They are getting shocked by their poorly put together bodies every time they take a step after the first mile.

Never seen a good built tight footed fast dog that was naturally deer broke, unless it had some cur in it, and those just because they seemed to be more attached to their handler and didn't like to get too far away from their handler, unless it was something they could look at every once in a while, either up a bush or fighting on the ground every once in a while. Most of the curs I have owned or been around were just different, they wanted to tree, catch or fight with something, and if they didn't have any reasonable expectation to do those things they stayed in spitting distance.

Wonder if anyone has ever thought of crossing cur with running dog, like recently? In my opinion , based on a lot of reading and some of that between the lines, that is how a lot of coonhounds came to be. Keep in mind, coon hunting is a recent thing. Every body fox hunted until roads were good enough to run over dogs, and then rural people got mixed together in WW2 and picked up bad habits from those southern boys and started stocking coons and leaving perfectly good fox dens standing instead of cutting them down on the ground where fox could use them.
al baldwin
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby al baldwin » Tue May 29, 2018 8:53 pm

Andyva, we all are entitled to our opinion or theory based on our experience. Will point out in these steep, steep mountains here dogs will build muscle in their front chest and legs making them appear stocky built. Some of the toughest dogs I have seen have been built that way, certainly has not slowed them down. This theory of allowing dogs to run off game of any type until they break themself/s is wasting to much time in a dogs productive life in my opinion. Most bobcat dogs I have experienced best years have been from about four thru seven years old & that has been accomplished by keeping them on good game, in good company from the beginning of their hunting days. So if allowed to run trash the first couple years seems to me that would just add to a bunch of wasted time in the short life span. However, that is up to the hunters who feed the dogs, but I would encourage young houndsmen not to buy into the theory hounds will break themself/s off trash. It has been my experience dogs who get started running trash at any age, have been a pain in the butt & I have yet to see one that completely broke themself/s off trash. Al
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby Andyva » Tue May 29, 2018 11:56 pm

I agree with you Al. I have heard of more than I've seen. The ones I have seen that I heard about had big flat coon feet, were bow legged, didn't have much muscle at all because they were too sorry to run anything well. That is why they were naturally deer broke. Good on corn field coon, but not much on anything tougher than that. Different horses for different courses is a saying that comes to mind, but in the end it is personal preference that rules what we all feed. Personally I prefer a pup that will flat smoke the first deer he ever comes across.
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby undertheradar » Thu May 31, 2018 6:02 pm

Two things come to mind in regards to dogs breaking themselves off deer. One is the breeding. The old lines of non papered grey fox / cat dogs in SEVA and NENC have proven time again that when kept in good company they will break. Another is is kind of a spin off off the first one. And that is equipment. If the dog [regardless of breeding] has the right equipment and can stay with a pack of dogs that constantly catch game they will like catching game and break themselves. Just my 2cents
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby Tanner Peyton » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:33 am

What do you guys who deer hunt with dogs do when your dog or dogs catch a deer. Or better yet what do your dogs do when they catch one. Do they bay or kill? I've had a few dogs catch deer in the past when they were trashing. Thank god they just bayed and I could get them pulled off.
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby Andyva » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:39 am

Enough dogs will stretch a deer, unless it as a big buck that backs up against something. Most deer will bay in water. Takes good dogs to get a healthy adult deer to that point. A lot of dogs don't have the legs or the wind to ever get in that situation. Hard to break a dog off deer if it has ever been in on a deer stretching. Them dinosaur sounds they make does something to a dogs brain, then they get a big belly full of fresh venison and there ain't much turning that off.
macedonia mule man
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby macedonia mule man » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:27 pm

Very seldom or possibly never is a healthy mature buck or doe ran down and killed bu deer dogs where I hunt. Wounded deer, yes. Sick deer , yes. Fawns , yes. But not a healthy mature deer. It's to thick. Could possibably catch one in open plantation pine but ery few are killed. They bay a while and leave go jump another deer. There is a lot of myth and hear say about running dogs with deer. I've hunted in the same club for the past 35 yrs. it is a deer dog hunting club since formed in early 70s. They have killed no less than 90 deer every year since that was reported. Some years well over 100. It is close to 4500 acres of river bottom cut over. Some body is running some kind of a dog on this club every day of the year non stop except turkey season. Running dogs on leases does not hertthe deer hunting or the deer population. And yes , we have people that bow hunt along with the dog hunters with no problem. They are told going in that it is a DOG hunting club. Most deer are not actually run down buy dogs. They panick and go into shock and lay down. My brother in law watched 8 inmates in Ms state pen run one down in a cotton field one day, he panicked went into shock and layed down in fetal position.
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby scrubrunner » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:40 pm

Have deer hunted with fast running dogs my entire life (60 years) have never seen dogs catch an unshot deer in my area during deer hunting season, a wounded one, some dogs bay and some catch. Where I hunt there are 3 lakes within 5 miles in 3 different directions. When the heat gets hot enough on their butt theyre going swimming and a dog doesn't hold a light to a deer swimming, I've seen it many times. Main thing here is to catch the dogs before they get to the lake, don't know how many of the deer get ate by gators but a lot of dogs do. I lose one every 4-5 years that way.
Typically a deer race doesn't last very long before deer is seen and dogs caught (doe or small buck not legal to shoot) or deer is killed.
Also sometimes a deer will pull out, head 5-10 miles in a straight line, will string dogs for miles and put em back to trailing.
If y'all are catching deer with tree bred dogs the deer there must not have the lungs these deer down here have. May be because these deer have been ran with dogs for generations,(over 100 years) I don't know, survival of the fittest maybe.
That's in my neck of the woods, may be a lot different in other places.
al baldwin
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby al baldwin » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:25 pm

Folks guess the dogs I hunted with must have been faster than I thought. The first good dog I owned was a registered treeing walker, coon hound bred as they got, Merchants Bawlie, x Motley Missouri Rose, Hershbergers Spot x Wagners Little Fanny. One heck of a bear dog than caught some bobcat, but, not the duck ,dodge type. The most natural track & tree dog I have ever seen. That dog was never completely broke off trash, my fault, she taught me more than I taught her. If she decided to run a deer, good chance that deer would get caught & yes she did kill more than one full grown deer by herself. Believe she ran the wind out of them. Here it must be much harder to see what a dog is running than where you folks live. Thanks & good hunting you all. Al
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby scrubrunner » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:43 am

Al, the woods here are extremely thick but relatively flat about 100' above sea level with roads about every mile. Most of the time a deer is going to cross one of these roads within minutes of the time it is jumped so I'm sure it is a lot easier to see what they are running than in wilderness type areas you are probably hunting. Only thing here is a fox or cat may run for hours without ever crossing a road, and that's about the only place you're going to see it. If you get off the road in to the woods it's got to run between your legs to see it, and you might not get a good look at it then. Most fox or cats pattern will cross 1 or more of these roads, the ones I like the best, kind of circle a 4 way intersection, that way I can park at the intersection and trot up and down the roads and see a crossing every few minutes. The only part of the race that we can actually see is in the road so before garmin all decisions or interpretations of what is going on in the race, (what dog is doing what) all has to be based on what you are hearing.
It's all fun Al, I love every minute of it and talking about it.
My Daddy told me he'd never took me the first time if he'd known how crazy I was going to go at it!
I'd love to make it out to your part of the country one day to go with some of y'all.
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Re: BobCat patterns on a Garmin?

Postby Andyva » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:07 am

I hunt with a boy down east. He has deer dogs. Not just dogs that run deer. He spends all year winning competition hunts to keep his dogs in condition. When season hits, he has all his litters weeded through, and he has several different packs that go good together. Different packs get used in different places for different things. There is a pack that will show you the deer you put them on, and a shotgun may not be required. His dogs are not all the same breeding. The main thing is, he can read dogs and is good at putting the right dogs together, and knows what situation to use which dogs in. Most deer races the deer is putting distance between him and the dogs the whole time. You push them and they start making tight little circles. When they do that, and you feed more dogs in, it is over pretty soon. He is in a club or two, but he gets invites from other clubs. If they see a big one, and want it hanging at their clubhouse, they call him. It's all in what you are willing to feed.

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