Az High desert

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Idcurs
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Az High desert

Postby Idcurs » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:31 pm

Hunting the high desert for bobcats is the hardest thing a bobcat dog can do.We have scrub oak,cliffrose,cactus of every kind with some cedar,juniper and mansenita thrown in,and lots of rock piles everywhere.On snow you can put one up now and then.West coast dogs don't have a clue what to do here,Tex bobcats dogs have no idea how to run in this stuff.I can cut over 20 bobcats tracks in a morning we have a lot of cats,but you won't find very many cat toilets to rig a cat from.And it is so dry most of the time you can't rig just driving down the road.I have tried to buy west coast dogs,most guys won't even comeover here to try,and the ones that have have run some races but no cats caught!!!I don't know what type or breed it would take to catch bobcats here but i wish I knew???I hunt from 2500 ft to 7500 ft .If you think you have what it takes I will be hunting all Nov and Dec come up and give it a try!!!!!!
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Dan McDonough
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Dan McDonough » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:59 pm

I know a guy that catches in that country but you sure wouldn't guess what kind of dogs he's packing.

I'll talk to him and find out a little more and get back to you. I know they don't make much noise, if you don't count gravel flying.

Edited to add that 20 tracks in a day just gets me excited!
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Re: Az High desert

Postby ridgerunners » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:31 pm

Idcur ,You are so right that high desert arid country is super tough to catch a bobcat in.I really don’t think the northwest houndsmen really understand that the Scent conditions are super tough. I have also seen my share of hounds that could catch in there state and come to even my high desert and do very little. I need a little snow to help me in are country. Without it you going to have a mostly unsuccessful hunt.I have a few West coast bred hounds in my pack and enjoy running them .They really have a different track style! But also have many coondog based hounds that are really nice too.Even are snow is dry ! So you better have a hound with a nose ..

I love to hunt a pack of hounds and it always seems that it’s like a football team.Every race (track) is different and every hound has its strong points in the race.Some have super cold nose some are way better in the rocks some are outstanding on the jump some are better at locating and the list goes on .The high desert is a tough place to catch cats.Iam not sure what kind of super dog you would need but maybe someone can breed up one.....Timothy Morgan
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Dan McDonough
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Dan McDonough » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:14 pm

Do you walk hunt much?
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mark
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Re: Az High desert

Postby mark » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:03 pm

Idcurs wrote:Hunting the high desert for bobcats is the hardest thing a bobcat dog can do.We have scrub oak,cliffrose,cactus of every kind with some cedar,juniper and mansenita thrown in,and lots of rock piles everywhere.On snow you can put one up now and then.West coast dogs don't have a clue what to do here,Tex bobcats dogs have no idea how to run in this stuff.I can cut over 20 bobcats tracks in a morning we have a lot of cats,but you won't find very many cat toilets to rig a cat from.And it is so dry most of the time you can't rig just driving down the road.I have tried to buy west coast dogs,most guys won't even comeover here to try,and the ones that have have run some races but no cats caught!!!I don't know what type or breed it would take to catch bobcats here but i wish I knew???I hunt from 2500 ft to 7500 ft .If you think you have what it takes I will be hunting all Nov and Dec come up and give it a try!!!!!!

You are painting with a pretty broad brush there. Have you ever been to Oregon?
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Re: Az High desert

Postby ridgerunners » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:27 pm

Mark I now you have some Jam Up hounds .Do you think you would have no problem with this southwest conditions?On bobcats ? Where is Dewey on this subject? Mark I know you guys have a desert in Oregon too ,but I still believe bobcat hunting in this high desert is much
Tougher.
Dan I walk behind my hounds a lot mainly because I hunt big country with very few roads and it is hard to tell what the hounds are doing most the time. I am training pups and need to keep them clean...Timothy Morgan
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Re: Az High desert

Postby mark » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:59 am

Tim they are far from jam up dogs. I know quite a few guys myself included that have bought and tried finished dogs from the biggest names in the S.W. We have bought pups out of the most famous dogs that money cant even buy. All of us thought we were missing in the cold trailing dept. i have a 4 yr old out of Jeff Allens "Pepper" dog that i raised from a pup here right now. Out of the 5 i have tried none of them ever trailed off on a track that my dogs bred here locally couldnt. The other guys i talk to that have tried the same thing have the same story as me. I bought a 6 year old that was bred and hunted in Az its entire life until i bought her and was highly endorsed by several of the top dry grounders that had hunted with the dog. She was a nice dog here once she aclimated to the country and me but never out trailed anything i had here. She did however turn into an exceptional rig dog on bobcats and she didnt need a turd to strike she could hit tracks. I live in an area that gets 45" annual rainfall but in an hour and a half can be hunting desert and rocks with 11" annual rainfall. When we get hammered with multiple storms with lots of rain i head east to hunt. The catching percentage goes down some but the dogs still catch cats on bare ground over there. Real rocky areas will always have an abundance of cats no matter where you live but i try to avoid those areas as much as possible mainly because i hate holes and culverts. They are both hard on dogs! I feel fortunant to live in the PNW because of the diversity in terrain. On a final note and something to think about, EVERYBODY has the toughest conditions and terrain to catch cats in but we cant all be right. Also i am not putting down the S.W. bred dogs by any means as i have enjoyed hunting some nice dogs from there but to think that they are the coldest nosed dogs being bred is not true in my experience.
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Rossco » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:33 am

I've only ran a few Arizona bobcats. My experience was they were definitely tuff. They had some get up and go to them. About the time the dogs would really start moving them they would make a loose and it was back to grubbing them out. But it was dang sure a lot of fun. A guy can get a whole lot of good hard dog work out of one track
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Idcurs » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:39 pm

mark wrote:
Idcurs wrote:Hunting the high desert for bobcats is the hardest thing a bobcat dog can do.We have scrub oak,cliffrose,cactus of every kind with some cedar,juniper and mansenita thrown in,and lots of rock piles everywhere.On snow you can put one up now and then.West coast dogs don't have a clue what to do here,Tex bobcats dogs have no idea how to run in this stuff.I can cut over 20 bobcats tracks in a morning we have a lot of cats,but you won't find very many cat toilets to rig a cat from.And it is so dry most of the time you can't rig just driving down the road.I have tried to buy west coast dogs,most guys won't even comeover here to try,and the ones that have have run some races but no cats caught!!!I don't know what type or breed it would take to catch bobcats here but i wish I knew???I hunt from 2500 ft to 7500 ft .If you think you have what it takes I will be hunting all Nov and Dec come up and give it a try!!!!!!

You are painting with a pretty broad brush there. Have you ever been to Oregon?

Yea I have been to Oregon,Wash and N.Cali none have the stuff I have here and it does not get over 5 inches or rain a year here.I am not sure what type of dog it takes to catch numbers here like you west coast guy put up.I have tried many lines-breeds-crosses and none have worked here.I think I made it clear if you have the dogs I have the cats and the time!!!I have had dogs that could cold trail a 3 day old lion track in the dirt--aint going to catch a bobcat with that type of dog!!!I have super fast bear dogs and they still don't do well on bobcats in this stuff.Around Flagstaff where it is open in the pines it is way different than here in rocks and brush.
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Dan McDonough
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Dan McDonough » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:56 pm

I hunted down around Quartzsite, but that's about all I know of AZ. How does that compare to your area?

By the way, I don't know how you'd run a dog day after day there. There are just to many cholla cactus. The dogs would do it but every time I saw the dogs they had some more needles in their feet, or shoulders. What a terrible place!
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Re: Az High desert

Postby merlo_105 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:20 pm

Idcurs, 3 day old 72 hour old Lion trailing in the dirt. Sounds like a fish story to me. So with 3 day cold trailers there should never be a day you don't get a track going with all the cats you got down there. Maybe it's not the dogs but the handler behind the dogs... For a person to come on here and blatantly say they have the toughest cats and so on and the NW guys don't know any better is pretty crazy. But what do I know I live in the NW and never hunted Arizona. But I would assume there are dogs and people who could make it look easy there
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Re: Az High desert

Postby twist » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:01 am

Believe it or not there are places where cats cant be caught consistantly. Being weather conditions or the terrain of the country. Andy
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Idcurs
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Idcurs » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:59 am

merlo_105 wrote:Idcurs, 3 day old 72 hour old Lion trailing in the dirt. Sounds like a fish story to me. So with 3 day cold trailers there should never be a day you don't get a track going with all the cats you got down there. Maybe it's not the dogs but the handler behind the dogs... For a person to come on here and blatantly say they have the toughest cats and so on and the NW guys don't know any better is pretty crazy. But what do I know I live in the NW and never hunted Arizona. But I would assume there are dogs and people who could make it look easy there

First off I never said I have the best dogs EVER!!!Read the post!!!!!I said I want a dog that can catch a bobcat here,If you are a real great dog handler just come down and catch a few,put up or shut up!!!!I have caught bobcats here ,and I would love to see your people that could make it look easy---And if you have never seen a cold trailing lion dog work a 3 day old track your world is really small!!!
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Idcurs » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:03 am

Dan McDonough wrote:I hunted down around Quartzsite, but that's about all I know of AZ. How does that compare to your area?

By the way, I don't know how you'd run a dog day after day there. There are just to many cholla cactus. The dogs would do it but every time I saw the dogs they had some more needles in their feet, or shoulders. What a terrible place!
Thats a bit lower but still very rough and rocky to the east,lots of cholla and other catus,not as mush under brush.And even drier I have hunted sheep there and glassed up a couple lions,its tough country!!!!
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Dan McDonough
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Dan McDonough » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:50 pm

Idcurs wrote:
Dan McDonough wrote:I hunted down around Quartzsite, but that's about all I know of AZ. How does that compare to your area?

By the way, I don't know how you'd run a dog day after day there. There are just to many cholla cactus. The dogs would do it but every time I saw the dogs they had some more needles in their feet, or shoulders. What a terrible place!
Thats a bit lower but still very rough and rocky to the east,lots of cholla and other catus,not as mush under brush.And even drier I have hunted sheep there and glassed up a couple lions,its tough country!!!!


Well, i have some idea then. My opinion is that your screwed. There's not many places in North America that are that bad. The coldest nosed dog I've ever seen in extremely hot and dry stuff was a Cajun Squirrel Dog I had back in the early 2000's, but it's a little tough betting on a freak. I've always liked to have an odd dog or two around that is way outside of what I'm usually hunting. Right now I've got anlot of odd dogs that do things they aren't supposed to. That seems to be the only way to find something new.

If your trying to do things that haven't been done, with the same things that already have been tried, your in for a long wait. Just go out there and pick up odd dogs and teach them like they were born for it. The surprises will come I think. Plus, it'll be fun if you let it.
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