Az High desert

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dwalton
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Re: Az High desert

Postby dwalton » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:09 am

Pigleg you are right on as to differences in condition and locales make a big difference in what a dog can do. Even out here in the northwest I have seen a lot of differences in what each type of dog can do. I have worked my dogs in OR, Washington, Utah, Nevada, Colorado, California, New Mexico and Arizona and have hunted with hounds not my on in Arkansas and Texas. Seeing lion and bobcat caught in most of those states. A lion dog is not what one needs to catch bobcat in my opinion. A lion dog takes a track much slower and from track to track and a bobcat dog has to move a track fast to get it jump in desert conditions. I have never treed a bobcat in Arizona, I have always been lion hunting when hunting there. I have trailed bobs on both the north and south rim of Grand Canyon but never jumped them. I have treed lion and gray fox In southern Arizona but never saw bobcat sign while hunting there or struck one while there. I have treed bobs in the North Eastern part of California desert in March thru June as long as there is ground has moisture. I believe that a top bobcat dog can only be run on bobcats to preform best to his/her ability. That is not to say that a lion dog can not catch bobcat and lion both. It is easy to catch bobcats in desert conditions with snow but to do it consistently catch them on bare ground you need moist ground or heavy brush. That said I have seen dogs in south Texas hunted in dry conditions make it look easy. It takes the right type of track moving dog that is conditioned to hunt in dry hot weather to catch dogs in adverse conditions. I think very few people have seen what a top pack of bobcats dogs can do in all conditions. The dedication for making or breeding a pack of bobcats to hunt and catch in those adverse condition is limited to a very few people. Heres what most people have trouble believing is there are hunters on both bobcats and lions that have dogs that run a old cold track so fast that it is hard to keep up with them with a good mule on dry ground. That said I have caught bobcat in most condition and not caught them in good condition, thats bobcat hunting the ultimate in hound hunting. Dewey
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Re: Az High desert

Postby davidg1! » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:39 pm

Well said Dewey!!
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Re: Az High desert

Postby twist » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 am

If dogs are catching bobcats consistently in (Dry) areas that tells me there is a heavy population of cats in those areas and the tracks are fairly hot ones.
The home of TOPPER AGAIN bred biggame hounds.
david
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Re: Az High desert

Postby david » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:54 pm

I have been through Arizona and New Mexico with bobcat dogs and stopped a few days just to see what they could do. And it left me feeling I needed a different kind of dog altogether, unless there was snow.

I think maybe if bobcats were killing livestock as often as lions do, we might have come up with fluid bobcat dogs for the southwest ranches.

I am watching with great interest as bobcat bred dogs are being used in South Africa where Jackals (canine) and Caracal (feline) can (and often do) do thousands of dollars of damage in one night to the domestic sheep and goat herds. One ranch I know of uses over eighty hounds in packs of around twelve. These dogs are all hunted five days a week. The conditions can be very dry at times. Some of the photos look like it could be Arizona or NM.
They HAVE TO catch these predators or go bankrupt quickly. The Caracals are bigger than a bobcat, but not by a lot compared to big northern bobcats. They probably have more scent. But they are developing dogs that catch them in difficult terrain and weather conditions.

I marvel at that situation. One man is in charge of an eighty or ninety dog operation (not counting pups) and the dogs are hunted full time; year round. And several men support their families on this ranch by hunting with hounds every day. And the ranches are way ahead by paying them. There has never been a better proving ground/breeding platform that I have heard of.

But the point is; necessity is the mother of invention. And the hunters/ranchers in the Southwest have never felt an overwhelming necessity for bobcat dogs. And historically, most would not even see any point in having one, and the thought might never have entered their mind.
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Goose » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:14 pm

david
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Re: Az High desert

Postby david » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:20 pm

Correct, the running walkers are making waves down there. It is really interesting.

In dry conditions the dogs keep tag teaming and leap frogging and reaching out hoping to find a trace of scent out there somewhere and it sounds like that is how they catch up to the game when it is dry. It is a beautiful thing.

I have not seen it. So this is about third or fourth hand information
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Goose » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:01 am

david
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Re: Az High desert

Postby david » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:10 am

I don’t know of anyone alive who bobcat hunts more than Harold. You are blessed to be Freinds with him. he actually bought the dog pictured on the cover of my book. This was back in the eighties. He is hard core as they come. And he has bought dogs from everywhere. Now that I think about it, he might know as much about the various strains of dogs used for bobcat throughout North America as anyone I can think of. He spared no expense and tried any he could find.
david
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Re: Az High desert

Postby david » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:05 pm

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Re: Az High desert

Postby Goose » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:09 am

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Re: Az High desert

Postby Goose » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:13 am

“Opinion in high regard”, it should’ve read, damned autocorrect, all in the name of progress they say...
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Re: Az High desert

Postby scrubrunner » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:22 am

David, I think you are right about them using the running walkers due to their endurance. The Walker foxhound has been bred for nearly 150 years with speed and endurance key traits bred for. I'm sure many don't understand or have knowledge of the fox hunting culture in the southeast. I have read numerous times on here that the competition is between the hounds and the game. That is not true throughout most of the south, the competition here is between whoever and everybody that shows up in the woods. When another hunter shows up in my woods, my intentions are to out run em and out last em. A hound that can not run the front or quits a race is not worthy to breed in most situations in the Walker foxhound world. A quitter is given to a deer hunter, in the old days they were done away with. The competition is who has the fastest hound that can run it right and if it is there at the end. Even field trials are 5 hours a day for 3 days, the USO is 4 days.
I said all that just to give some insight to some that may not know the endurance of the Walker foxhound and why they have it.
I had a big strong male several years ago that was hunted all day for 82 days straight except 1 day. He was running n couldn't catch him that night, he came to camp at 4:30 am, he didn't come out of his house to load up n go the next morning so he was left at camp. I ran him in 2-3 day field trials, he won the combination at both, placed 2nd in speed n drive at one and 6th speed n drive at the other with over 130 dogs entered at each. Just an example of what a good foxhound is capable of in speed and endurance.
Note: these field trials were not in a fox pen.
macedonia mule man
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Re: Az High desert

Postby macedonia mule man » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:23 am

My high desert experience is limited to a 20 ft wide gravel road. They are hard to trail and run anything for any distance. Other than that , I wear rubber boots 365 days a year to keep my feet dry. Scenting conditions in damp, thick under brush can be bad sometimes. High desert is not the only place that makes you scratch your head and wonder why???????
Ed Moore
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Ed Moore » Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:26 pm

Well said mule man.
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Re: Az High desert

Postby Wht » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:19 pm


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