Luke 8:17

A Place to talk about hunting Bobcats, Lynx.
david
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Luke 8:17

Postby david » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:58 pm

This video fascinates me. I feel like I need more information.

The cat looks alert and in good shape. I don’t think I can remember ever seeing a cat GIVEN THIS MUCH SPACE and being held completely stationary with two dogs and without any backing. It’s like good sheep dogs, holding steady with their eyes or something without causing panic.

Any insights are welcome. I need some more detectives on this case. I’m ready to learn.

Unless there is something about this that can’t be seen, ive never seen more gifted bay dogs for a guide that needs the cat with shooting room and untouched by dogs. I’ve had dogs that could do it, but not with both of them that far away and nobody gaurding the back door. It amazes me.

I hear other dogs somewhere (truck?) so I don’t know what all went on here.

{Edited to remove video link}
Last edited by david on Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lawdawgharris
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby lawdawgharris » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:16 pm

Obviously I'm not a cat hunter but I'm gonna tell ya what I see. It looks to me like the dogs are baying from the side of the thicker woods. The side of the cat opposite the dogs looks a lot more open. I would bet that they caught up before he could cross the more open real estate. He knows if he hits that open stuff with the dogs that close he is vulnerable. The dogs know he's stopped and has a decent place to make a stand. They obviously aren't rough in the sense of being catchy. With this mind set, they aren't putting any undo pressure on the cat to make him climb or run, but at the same time understand he can't chance crossing open ground where he would be defenseless. That's what I see. I've seen it quite a few times hog hunting. The dogs were fast track dogs but not much bite to them, but the hog was forced to take bay in order to have cover or because he was winded. I might be completely wrong here, I have been once before.

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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby john porter » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:32 pm

David,
These dogs belong to a guy I know from downeast Maine. He always has some really nice dogs he runs every winter on cats.
Last edited by john porter on Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby Stumpmaker » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:40 pm

Looks to me like he turned out on a cat that had already been caught!!! That’s why there’s a snare on it hind leg!! Hopefully he left it sense the trapper already caught it and didn’t steal it like so do.
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby Beebout-it » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:43 pm

That's exactly what I thought! I've never chased cats in his country but no way a bobcat here would stand there like that.
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby Stumpmaker » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:55 pm

If you look at the end of the video you can see the wire move when the cat lifts up it hind leg! It happens all the time a hound hunter cuts a cat track in the road and turns out on it not knowing there’s a trap set not to far away! I hunt plotts and I have never seen too many that wouldn’t have killed that cat or at least gave it a hell of a try!
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby al baldwin » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:22 pm

I have seen bobcats being held at bay more than one time when the cat just sit like it was unconcerned. One that always sticks out in my mine was a bob lying on top of a bush about three foot high acting like it never had anything to worry about. Two dogs were standing back about 10 feet baying at that cat. I walked within 10 feet of the cat, kinda spooked me when I noticed the bob. I stood and observed wishing I had a camera, never carried one. This cat had covered a bunch of very rugged terrain and was a far ways from where the dogs started that cat. I had five dogs on the cat when the race started, only two had finished the race. I told those dogs lets go, dogs & I walked away as I glanced back several times the cat just appeared to be resting. However I was hunting those mixed up treeing walkers, so how could I have gotten so lucky? Al
david
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby david » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:33 pm

david wrote:This video fascinates me. I feel like I need more information...

Any insights are welcome. I need some more detectives on this case...

Unless there is something about this that can’t be seen... It amazes me.

I hear other dogs somewhere (truck?)



Man, you guys. Thank you. I was really stuck on this. I just could not put it together. After hitting the ten seconds rewind a bunch of times at the end of the video, Now hopefully I can sleep tonight. (I figured out if I tap the video picture twice on the left side, it rewinds 10 seconds)
I guess I am amazed in a couple new ways.

But at least I don’t have to be obsessing over some kind of bobcat mind controlling, spell casting, magical dogs that I need to try before I die.

Thank you again for the help!!

I wish I could have figured it out on my own. It is awkward to have brought it forward. Man I was going to sell some dogs for this outfit. And I am sure they are great dogs.

I kept thinking the one closest sure was acting like I would think a pup would act. Seriously wondering if magical dogs just always keep on acting like pups. You know, the harmless puppy disguise. Man I’m an idiot.

But, She probably has grown up into a real fine dog. I actually like her a whole bunch and would have been proud to make her into a seasoned bobcat dog. Her head says fast track dog to me. Not saying she is, but it would have been my expectation

I needed dogs that would not kill the cat. I don’t know if she will ever be able to hold a cat, but maybe with a little age she could help. If she was that far BEHIND the cat, I know I could use her to shut the back door in a non-threatening way. But she probably will remain a header and is way too far back for that role. She sure could change though. (In my limited experience at trying to keep cats alive with two dogs, the header has to be close enough to nip if the cat turns his head. She will train him not to do that).
david
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby david » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:38 am

lawdawgharris wrote:Obviously I'm not a cat hunter but I'm gonna tell ya what I see. It looks to me like the dogs are baying from the side of the thicker woods. The side of the cat opposite the dogs looks a lot more open. I would bet that they caught up before he could cross the more open real estate. He knows if he hits that open stuff with the dogs that close he is vulnerable...


I always learn from your insights. I did not see this edge you noticed. And you are right sometimes cats will try to hide rather than crossing an opening when dogs are very close. If he had been backed up against some roots or something that he thought might have hidden him, this would have made sense to me.
lawdawgharris
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby lawdawgharris » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:39 am

I've had 2 dogs snared around the neck over the years while hog hunting. They weren't hurt because they were smart enough not to tighten it down and just sat and barked. I've never bayed a snared hog. That was something I didn't even consider. I guess because it was kinda portrayed like the dogs were responsible for him being there. Good eye guys, I told y'all I've been wrong before. This makes twice now lol.

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david
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby david » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:31 am

lawdawgharris wrote:... I guess because it was kinda portrayed like the dogs were responsible for him being there. Good eye guys, I told y'all I've been wrong before. This makes twice now lol.


I guess it kinda was. But I am sure he just used it to let his potential clients know what kind of beautiful cats we got walking around out here. I’m pretty sure he did not put that up for Houndsmen to be puzzled over.

Three strikes and you’re out Lawdawg :wink:

I’m allowed three times per post. Seniority.
david
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby david » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:51 am

lawdawgharris wrote:I've had 2 dogs snared around the neck over the years while hog hunting. They weren't hurt because they were smart enough not to tighten it down and just sat and barked.


For any new to this sport and who may keep your dogs in a kennel, this is why you MUST tie your dogs out and get them used to being tied.
Watch your dog the first time he is ever restrained with a chain. That behavior could kill him in a snare.

Tie him and leave him till he quits pulling.
And do the same the next day.
And keep doing it till you think the pressure he applies would not hurt him in a snare.

When I chain train puppies, I tightly stretch a long chain with (18” + - )runners for each puppy and I tie them when I feed them. The food helps them settle down each time, and they learn not to pull at all because that would remove them from the feed.

Some hounds never quit lunging. I don’t like that type of dog, and he would have to be amazing in other ways for me to keep him. But if I did, I would put the shock collar on him and sit there and teach him not to hit the end of that chain.
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby Cowboyvon » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:04 pm

For any new to this sport and who may keep your dogs in a kennel, this is why you MUST tie your dogs out and get them used to being tied.
Watch your dog the first time he is ever restrained with a chain. That behavior could kill him in a snare.

Tie him and leave him till he quits pulling.
And do the same the next day.
And keep doing it till you think the pressure he applies would not hurt him in a snare.


I need to do this... I haven't really worried about it in the past because of where I was hunting .. and the hounds I had were kept on a chain before.. now I have these kennels and a bunch of young hounds .. I am going to start today .. thanks David for reminding me
I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.

Henry David Thoreau
macedonia mule man
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby macedonia mule man » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:59 pm

Never had a dog neck snared, but all the dogs I chained out settled Down in about 5 min. Believe they would do the same in neck snare. Might chew their leg in leg snare.
david
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Re: A Bobcat Guide’s Bay dogs.

Postby david » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:46 pm

macedonia mule man wrote:Never had a dog neck snared, but all the dogs I chained out settled Down in about 5 min. Believe they would do the same in neck snare. Might chew their leg in leg snare.


(Edited)

Even before snares were so popular, I would break all my dogs to chain because then they are not automatically pulling my arm off and flipping around when I have to leash them for the first time. I want them thinking about other things than chain trauma when I take them on their first hunt or hook them up on the rigging platform. That could be a VERY negative association in the pups mind, and I don’t want to have to deal with it for days or weeks or months or years, depending on the level of fear and danger in the pups perception.

So next, I am wondering, What did your dogs do in that five minutes when they were first chained. Because I have seen plenty that would freak out and pull and roll and fight pretty hard.

If you think they would do the same in a snare, How tight do you think a snare could be pulled in five minutes? And so many snares are set at fence crawls, which can hang the dog when he fights and jumps over.

And beyond breathing, if a dog steps through, a fought snare can cut.

And to everyone: snares are extremely cheap. A lot of feed stores even carry them now. They are everywhere and any one with a couple bucks who has no clue about trapping ethics can buy them and string them. If you are not sure about breaking your dogs to chain, and you have a fresh dog who has never been restrained, you can do a very specific and scientific experiment for the price of a snare.
It will cost a little bit more to test out a snare with a kill spring.

Let us know How it goes.

Snare kill springs:
https://youtu.be/AQORcHVNzxw
Ram power snares:
https://www.minntrapprod.com/mobile/Ram ... ducts/579/
Last edited by david on Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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