Really bad day and alot of unanswered questions!

[dhostetler]

Some lions are just mean. In our part of the country in NW MT about one in 20 are what I call mean laying back there ears and rumbling. Last winter I treed one that was only about a 120 lb. tom and he was slapping the tree and biting off branches.

Several years ago a friend of mine lost a hound to a 70 lb. tom that jumped the tree and ambushed the lead dog killing it before it treed again.

If you hunt lions long enough you will get dogs killed by them.

When I had my first hound killed by a bear an old timer told me that once you have a dog killed by the game you are hunting you have joined the big league of hound hunting.

[Conejos]

Ya one of my buddies that doesn't hunt with hounds said it pretty good when he told me thats what happens when you hunt something that hunts back!

[Mike Leonard]

Your old friend was wise indeed. It happens.

Here in the desert southwest this doesn't happen as often as possibly in the north country but mean lions can crop up any where.

One of the reason we don't see as much of this down here is that especially dry ground guys run as a rule quite a number of dogs. the average pack I would say would be at least 6 dogs and some run as many as 8-10 or more. So lions circeling back or bailing into them don't stand as good a chance as they do with the one and two dog hunters. Up north many times it makes sense to hunt less dogs especially I have found in the tough cold frozen slopes of snow and bare ground. Too many dogs actually hinder you and knock out the track a lot of times that you need to carry it on and warm it up. But this comes with the inherent risk of dogs trailing up a lion alone of with very little help. the longer a lion sets there in a tree and the more tired the dog gets the less the dog looks like a threat and the more in begins to look like a possible meal.

When lions get spoiled or have killed and hurt a few dogs they can be really trechorous for they will learn how to circle and ambush and I have seen this several times.


If you get a really mean acting lion in the tree and you don't really think it was spoiled before you are very likely close to a very fresh kill.


Lions go into a state of extreme concentration or lock on kill mode I call it. Even after the kill is made they do not come down from this right away. If they are challenged when they are still in this state and have not cooled down they will fight and kill and really make a mess of things.If pushed up as you said they will be ears flat slapping that tail bitting off limbs and making charges in the tree.


I good freind of mine that has spent his whole life hunting cougars and is regarded as one of the leading authorities in North America on them told me one time. Hey man be careful when you know that lion is still jazzed from the kill because that is when the shit happens.The coward in them has been taken over by that state of extreme kill concentration and it is almost like a trance. This man said he has witness packs of wolves observe a lion make a kill but they wait patiently until the lion has handled it's duites and cooled off before they move in. sure they could charge in and with numbers over take the kill but they are smart enough to know they would be fighting a whole different animal and it could be dangerous. Once the lion is cooled out they just open up like a wild pack of hounds and run him off or tree him and devour the kill.

A lot goes on out there when you have the time to watch it.

[dhostetler]

If you get a really mean acting lion in the tree and you don't really think it was spoiled before you are very likely close to a very fresh kill.


Lions go into a state of extreme concentration or lock on kill mode I call it. Even after the kill is made they do not come down from this right away. If they are challenged when they are still in this state and have not cooled down they will fight and kill and really make a mess of things.If pushed up as you said they will be ears flat slapping that tail bitting off limbs and making charges in the tree.


quote]


I never thought about that but it makes sense, several years ago I was roading on bare ground and the dogs opened up right on the road went up the bank scattering deer everywhere for a little while I thought I had a deer race until they treed about 500 yards off the road. When I got within about 200 yards of the tree I started hearing this deep rumble, I didn't know what I would find in the tree but turned out to be a 130 lb. tom. I figure I busted his deer stalk.

[Yard Dog]

Years ago, 91 or 92, we treed a nice tom way up high in deep snow and tall pines. My dad had a permit and it was a nice cat so we decided to take it. Each time we pulled the dogs and tied them back, the cat would leap from tree to tree to get back over them. Then he would go back to hissing, pissing and biting off every branch he could. He really acted like he wanted to come down and have another go at the dogs. We ended up moving the dogs 3 times. Some of the trees were a good distance apart. He looked like a 180 lb flying squirl, exept he had big teeth.
It was somthing to see....

[Kyle]

I am not commenting on this kill because I wasn't there, but I would like to make two points.

One is that wolves do sometimes drag their kill around.

The description of the dead dog is a classic WI. wolf kill. It is common to have only an untouched head and piece of spine after the wolves have eaten them.
Kyle

[B&T man]

I'd agree. That does not sound like a cougar at all.

Why would the dog at the road be scared out of his mind... Cause his buddy was killed by something he hasen't run into before...

There was a lion in the tree. Something killed the dog. Of coarse the cat is gonna cruise down there the next day and check things out. Leaving tracks as he does so.

If it happened to me, I wouldn't think it was a lion, tracks or no tracks.

(wouldn't a cat burry his kill?)

[rockman]

six or so years back I had three dogs killed by wolves. . .and by the way you discribed the scene it was the same, only the head and part of the spine. . .I feel for you man two of thoses dogs that were killed were first stingers. . . so I would be willing to bet ya they were wolves. . .sorry about your loss.

sonny

[cougarhound]

wolves. with you not seeing no tracks they could have blended in with dog tracks

[B&T man]

wolves. with you not seeing no tracks they could have blended in with dog tracks

I thought of the same thing. If there are no wolves there coyote tracks would blend in too.

[007pennpal]

I was second hand witness to a lion killing a pony with a twelve year old boy on it riding last in a pack string. The 120 pound female broke the neck of the horse with her bite leaping from a side ambush. Twenty riders up the string was a rifle that ended the cats career. The lioness never let go of her kill bite even after being beaten by the cowboys with sticks and rocks. She was in her kill mode. Amazing to see.

Sean Michael
Sgt. Michael's Kennel

[houndnem]

Dam where were all these guys at when I was gettin tripple dog tag teamed by everyone that said it was no doubt a lion? I still don't think it was the lion.

[Big Mike]

"I wasn't sure at first but after going back and finding the dogs remains move another hundred yards and lion tracks in the dirt i got my answer."


He answered the question, why do you have such a hard time believing that. I seen lions that live in urbanized areas hunt, kill, and eat dogs on a regular basis!!

[George Streepy]

I thought we already got past this. Wolves, coyotes, wolverines, squirrels, butterflies, whatever. Since we have come around to cast our vote for the second time, I will stick with the lion. Lions can kill dogs. I wish we could blame coyotes or wolves for this one. I hate when an animal that is being hunted fights back and hurts or kills dogs. It isn't really a good thing for our sport. Atleast it doesn't happen all that often, and I am greatfull it hasn't happened to me. The person with the most information already let us know what he believes it was.

[grouse]

Maybe the lion killed it and then later coyotes came and fed on it .