why register your dog??

[outlaw13]

not to be a smart ass but if the dogs sell for more with papers id rather register em n get more money lol

you and every other puppy pedeler dog farm out there. It is the above mentioned attitude mixed with the money hungry asshole that doesn't really care about the breed or quality of hound only money. this makes for a bad name for a few good people. and a bad taste in quite a few mouths.

[mike martell]

jerry layfield aka fargo....read the post....feeling guilty? you should. my regret was allowing you to have charlie. i sent him to you for john. do you not understand what kind of mess you and john are creating? what business does a wanna be coon hunter from ohio have trying to breed big game hounds? ONCE AGAIN THIS SOLIDIFIES MY POINT!!!!

did you or did you not put charlie down for turning on you? remember you shot a coon and he took possession of both you and the coon!!!!wake up man!!!! those dogs have a vicious side for people and chickenshit as they come for bear....joe is the exception solid bear dog....but did john explain to you he is the same as the rest? make that dog mad and its over for you...(joe will not tolerate this)johns words not mine...i QUIT THIS STRAIN FOR GOOD REASONS....I'M CONVINCED THERE ARE WAY BETTER DOGS ANY PLACE OUT IN THE WORLD, THAN TO PUT UP WITH THIS CRAP....star was also bred to joe with the same results for a matter of fact!!! i also owned her sister and she whipped every dog i had years ago at a lion tree....all you can see is you caught a bear with john.....all you can see are pedigrees that read "pr"big deal brag and b.s.... yes you did spend the money out of pocket to dna the litter..... UKC DOES NOT REQUIRE NOTHING IF YOU DON'T NOTIFY THEM....YOU DID, MOST WOULD NOT SPEND THE MONEY....

JERRY, I HONESTLY FEEL SORRY FOR YOU....YOUR GUS DOG IS NOT THE ISSUE...SHE IS A VERY NICE DOG....WHAT DO YOU LOOK TO ACCOMPLISH BY BREEDING TO THE SIRE THAT CREATED CHARLIE FROM YOUR NICE FEMALE? YOU SHOOT CHARLIE AND GO RIGHT BACK TO THE SOURCE BECAUSE THE PEDIGREE READS WHITE CLOUD AND WHITE CLOUD FAME... YES UKC NEEDS TO ELIMINATE THE ENTIRE REGISTRY AND MAKE THE BULK OF THE DOGS GRADE.....AT LEAST YOU CAN'T KEEP CLINGING TO YOUR PAPERS.....JERRY, YOU WANT THE LIST OF NAMES OF ALL THE OTHER W.C DOGS....I WILL POST THEM ALL, THERE IS A PILE....DID YOU GO UP STEWART CREEK IN CANADA? STEWART CREEK IS FAMOUS ACROSS THE WEST FOR THE LAST STAND OF THE INFAMOUS WHITE CLOUD DOGS.....JOHN KNOWS THIS AS WELL.

when i drove to north Carolina and picked up those w.c dogs...i made a deal with dwayne lowery. i traded him a solid bay dog, bear catching machine like a fool....his dogs stretched him in the brush a week later as they did clouds sire and a whole bunch more. dwayne blames the bear...bears don't completely skin a hound, dogs stretching end to end do! my deal was to send dwayne some pups....like i explained to his son....ain't happening.....its over....look at the young hunters on this site with little kids and now you tell me are you comfortable selling them one of your alligators.

[tomtom]

If you aren't in the clique, and I am not, it is easier to get that "my dog is well bred" feeling when you purchase a puppy with papers, than try and convince a REAL BIGGAMEHOUNDSMAN to sell me a pup from years of "dry ground breeding". Not being a smartass, just trying to answer why at least one person on here buys a pup with papers. Also, if I needed to sell my little plott pup, nobody knows who Tom Cantwell from Texas is, but you know what is printed on that paper, and you can't tell me that piece of paper doesn't leverage the idea that my plott MIGHT not be 100% plott in my favor.

To edit, in case I unintentionally stirred the pot, I just meant papers seem to help the little guy without a reputation like me. One day I hope to have a reputation where they aren't necessary, like so many of you on this forum.

[torque]

mike martell, i appreciate everything you have said and i beleive every word. thats the reason i have not registered my dogs. papers dont show what the dog does, seein the dog in action is the real deal. thats why (for example) people have hogs, to show what the parents of the pups can do if you have hog dogs. i'd rather see a dog in action than for somebody to hand me papers and say this is what there mom and dad was, like i give a crap. somebody needs to come out with a kennel club, hound club or whatever and they base the dog on looks and there actions on the game that they hunt and only then will i register my dogs. if someone creates this cause i mentioned it i want 50% profit.lol

[fargo]

Mike, no guilt here I got charlie with my hard earned money and you was telling me all along that it was a good deal. I was going on what you were saying. And as far as your concerned I have every right as the next guy to raise dogs and I have never advertised these dogs as big game dogs and you sound really stupid saying a coondog can't make a biggame dog it's happened before my time and will happen after my time The Loose Bruce dogs you hunted were lowly coon dogs but you took them and treed biggame with them. and why don't you let everyone know what BIGGAME dogs you are hunting so we can all get them and walk on water like you. your post in noway said anything about the sires A and B being dna'a I have not sold any of these dogs and I can't help what was done by other people with the white cloud dogs. I am all eyes and ears if someone on this sight is breeding top hounds that can show me walker's that is not a hit and miss deal. Once again you turned this into a pitty party cause Mike had another cross go bad ---I never mentioned what type of dogs this issue was about it was about bashing ukc and you having to pay to have a pup that was not dna'a redone Ukc didn't pick you out of a hat and said lets pick on Mike and that was my question to you why would they ask you to dna a pup that was not done when you got it the parents weren't done either. Oh I see you know their business better than they do just like you know how much I hunt in Ohio You can tell just by talking to me on the phone.. White cloud stride was in Illinois but people used them on big game imagine that he was a coondog same goes for Blueticks, Redbones, english, Plotts.

[mike martell]

Jerry, you Missed the whole point. i was more than stoked on this strain of hounds until the dogs started to get some circulation....1. this was not supposed to happen. me, Leo, john, Jerry....period. no outsiders like you until the kinks were worked out. yes things looked good. but as soon as the ill aggressions started to become apparent,(after you bred charlie to gus) i quit...the rest of you guys are stuck trying to figure out how to place the blame on me and not the dogs.

Jerry, you took the high road on dna... i commend you, but as i stated earlier...ukc doesn't care. they would have taken your money and register your litter any way you sent the papers into ukc....this can't and won't solve the underlying issue. papers, dna and magic....UNLESS YOU HUNT, CULL AND WALK AWAY....YOU REMAIN THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM. DO YOU WANT TO BECOME A BREEDER OR A USED CAR SALESMAN? WHAT DOES TRENT TELL PERSPECTIVE FOLKS LOOKING TO BREED A BITCH TO MR. BAKER? THIS DOG IS THE COOLEST, OR OH BY THE WAY THE SIRE TO MY HIGH POWERED STUD DOG WAS PUT DOWN FOR ATTACKING THE OWNER?

papers can help you select better traits if you keep better records than ukc. ukc can track how many nite champions and grands but the really don't care like a serious hunter if the dog can ....trail....locate.....tree....bay.....homing....growly....and the other thousand things that matter more.

harold dickerson, dale branderburger, and many others did have good luck with dogs bred for coon making great big game dogs. they are derived from the same stock. i should have been more specific. you are stuck on breeding gus to a full white cloud dog period. end results don't matter. we see things differently. you have seen less than a half dozen bears in your life and i suspect if you ever seen a lion it was in a zoo. PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW YOU INTEND TO PULL THIS OFF AND WHY DNA, WHY BREED TO AN ALLIGATOR KNOWINGLY? WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO REPEAT THE SAME GAME PLAN AND EXPECT DIFFERENT RESULTS? i have hunted long enough to understand one thing....i'm no good at breeding.i'm also know if i do this once and it fails. i will not repeat the same thing twice, i also found out there are many good breeders and dogs.

i will end it here Jerry....i though i was hard headed and stuck on my thoughts...god forbid if you ever perfect a breed or strain that clicked...i feel for you. your gus dog is very nice. i'm sure you would give any thing to have the off spring to her by her side....what i have seen, i would look at another strain or breed and get to catching game and leave the breeding to the real experts...i thought you were on to a solid plan by contacting one of this boards top lion hunters and breeding to his top lion (grade) hound and single registering the litter.....john knows how many w.c. dogs we piled on the bears in canada with no results. you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink....same goes for bear dogs....ukc can't help ya none, nor can dna....

i told you before and i will tell you again....come and hunt and look for yourself and if you are serious about catching game....i will help you ....
the best of luck to you mr. layfield

[mike martell]

here is another example...not just the integrity of the walkers....given my current stellar status with ukc...i have an english dog from the top breeder....(not mentioning his name....but you all know)...hey mike we need that dog registered.....i have bred those dogs over the last thirty years and i will just register her for you so we can breed her....this happens all the time....i can write a book! i'm sick and tired of ukc and how pure they claim to be....time to dna the works and grade hound the rest.....you can't fix those not willing to admit issues with a hound....but at least you can't sweep the blood under the rug....

adios....

[donbhuntn]

all im saying is if the dog can be registered,why not do it?then you can ukc hunt in night hunts with the dog,and if someones wanting a great registered dog,and you were to lazy to send off fr the papers but you need money bad,wouldnt yuou wish you woulda sent off for the papers?some people like ukc hunts,hunt tests,etc...but they cant buy a dog for it if the dog isnt registered....?thats all i was saying so dont get mad and cry just cool the jets bro.i wouldnt sell a dog for anything more than its worth,and wuldnt lie about what the dog is and isnt doing.the ones that dont make coon dogs dont make it farther than a hole in he ground and the papers are burned.

[jason]

I skipped the majority of these posts so maybe I'm changing subject. But I like papered dogs so that I can enter the nite hunts. I doubt they tree anymore or less cats, coons, etc. than non papered dogs but after having a few dogs without papers and not being able to enter them in the nite hunts, my money will be going towards papered dogs.

[Melanie Hampton]

What really cracks me up is those people who have dogs out of papered dogs.. then they say "papers don't catch anything" (no shit sherlock... it's paper) You may not have SENT the papers in.. But your dogs are out of registered stock..

It kinda defeats the arguement

[mike martell]

The Treeing Walker was developed from certain strains of English Walker Foxhounds. The credit for the development of the Walker Foxhound goes to two men - George Washington Maupin and John W. Walker. Both men were from Kentucky.
Before that time Thomas Walker of Albemarle County, Virginia, imported hounds from England in 1742. George Washington, who was an avid fox hunter, also imported several hounds from England in 1770. These dogs became the foundation strains of the “Virginia hounds”, which were developed into the Walker hound.

At least one major out cross was made in the 19th century that was to forever influence the breed. Strangely, the out cross was with a stolen dog from Tennessee of unknown origin, known as Tennessee Lead.

Lead didn’t look like the Virginia strain of English Foxhounds of that day. But he had an exceptional amount of game sense, plenty of drive and speed and a clear, short mouth.

Walkers were first registered with UKC as part of the English Coonhound breed. Then in 1945, at the request of Walker breeders, UKC began registering them as a separate breed — first as Walkers (Treeing) and then later as Treeing Walkers.

hard to think of this breed starting out as "registered", look at your treeing walker history that i pasted above....and the influence tennessee lead had in the treeing walker......classified in history as a "major influence to the breed" how can a stolen dog of unknow origin be registered? tennesse lead could of had some plott for all any of us knows for sure....where does the current "ticking" come from?" influence of the past or? lets assume the ticking is from the original foundation stock....still showing up in todays walkers.... now couple this with the trend of paper trading any you tell me....one thing stands clear....hound hunters are one of a kind and no two will ever agree.....now look at the simple truth and you know full good and well registered hounds are ?....this post has gotten side ways and i will track back to the original subject....most of my issues with walkers comes from the element of the unknown....who did what!....without all hounds being dna'd, all of them..... they are just dogs......but hey. that is what they are "just dogs".....GO HUNTIN!....good luck to all.....

[Airedale From NY]

The main reasons I register my dogs is to keep track of bloodlines, I also liked to attend a competition hunt every now and then and of course the dogs needs to be registered with the registry sanctioning the hunt.

Al Kranbuhl

[Dewatto]

Well i run grade dogs and papered dogs. At one time I thought I was going to do the night hunt thing but after a shady first experience I decided just to use the papers for bloodlines and that's it.