Runnin dogs???

[oconee]

I'm by no means a cat hunter so this will probably seem like a stupid question to many but here goes. It seems that nearly every one has some running blood influence in their pack somewhere, maybe even full-blood running dogs. Anyway it just sounds like, to a novice like me that its nearly impossible to consistently catch cats without some running influence in a pack. Now if that's the case could someone just explain the reason to a beginner.

I just seems like (by reading) that even with the running dogs, most will have some treeing blood for locating and treeing. I'm very intrigued by cat hunting and have never done it but I can't fathom needing a dog to start tracks, some dogs to push the track, and some other dog to locate and tree. This is definitely not some sort of smarta-- remark but it just sounds like a bunch of dogs that can't catch much alone. Now keep in mind I have NO IDEAL what I'm talking about but I just want to learn the mind set of building a pack of cat dogs. I'm of the opinion that if each dog in the pack can preform every aspect necessary to catch its own game then it greatly improves the percentages of catching that game. It just seems like the only things the running dogs bring to the game is "pushing a track" I just can't wrap my mind around having a dog for one purpose. Maybe I just can't truly appreciate the value of the speed they bring and the importance of that speed to a cat race????

[Jkohnke]

I run fox and occasionally my dogs run bobcats and if a cat does tree they leave it. I run strictly running dogs. But I would say yes if you want to shoot the cat out you better have some tree dogs there to sit down and tree him when he goes up. Was just talking about this up a couple boards. Problem with what I see here in ms in the woods we hunt is that tree dogs can't hold out and keep up with the running dogs on long races.

[Jkohnke]

But from what I read on here these guys out west and up north tree them pretty consistently with tree hounds.

[jcathunter]

Many will disagree with me but, personally, I do not like running dogs for cat. I want a dog that can and does locate the tree and will sit there and bark until I get there. I know that some of the dogs I hunted in my younger days had running dog in them but I was also told, "you gotta put some tree back into those dogs". I believe that a dog with average speed that has the ability to keep pushing forward(few loses and not much time lost in those loses)and locate well will catch more cats than a fast dog that can't locate. Its hard to win a race when there is no finish line.

[slowandeasy]

You guy's are completely missing the boat about the reason for mixing the running dog blood with tree hounds to catch ANYTHING!! If we are honest about a good percentage of our tree dog breeds, at least over the last 23 years. We have accepted lack of drive ( quitters ). Just look at our trash runners. Sure we have to break our deer runners. But deer hunters that hunt with real deer dogs would laugh at MOST of our so called deer runners. We really have quitters or tree hounds that bump deer and give it a pretty impressive run, but are still laughable in the real deer dog world. The ones that are not willing to admit the lack of endurance in the newer tree world. Are either running game that is catchable with mediocre hounds. Or catching a small percentage of harder game to run ( pop-ups ), and trying to make their game of choice seem ten foot tall and uncatchable for anyone. Because after all everyone has the best hounds , and catches more than their peers .

You first have to recognize we have a problem before it can be corrected. And although I currently have a handful of nothing at the time. I certainly have refused to take my stupid pills, and close my eyes to a problem that exists in not all but a very high percentage of tree bred hounds. ( Lack of drive, stick, tenacity, tuff footedness, and the ability to go day after day race after race. )

Can't wait to hear from all the 100% tree hound owners that are the exception to the new rule. After all, just refer to the last sentence in paragraph one. And the answer to WHY. May be staring us in the eyeballs. Have to go try and do something with these half counterfeits I currently am feeding. Hope all had a MERRY CHRISTMAS, AND HAVE A VERY GOOD NEW YEAR!!!!!


Take care, Willie

[Jkohnke]

I guess it's what lights a mans fire to what he hunts. I'm a running dog guy but I don't bash the tree dogs or crosses. I've got deer dogs also all of wich are running dogs. Coon hunters have given me trash runners before that say will burn a deer up but they can't stay in a deer or coyote race with the running dogs for very long. A man has got to find a happy medium somewhere. Problem is the dog or pack people are wanting or wishing to have doesn't exist and I see people go through dog after dog trying to find what suits them and realistically it doesn't exist.

[jcathunter]

Willie, it sounds to me like you are saying that, without running blood, a dog will catch a small percentage of bobcats and the owner will try to make the bobcat sound uncatchable??? Is that correct? Right now, I'm purposely hunting dogs that I know have zero running dog blood in them and doing just fine. Although I haven't hunted the past week, the week before, my registered english was under 3 trees for the last 4 jumped races and the 4th race had a guy dump his box in to the dogs and blow up the race. I also kept track a few years back with a nice pack of dogs that I owned and they caught 45 of 50 jumped cats during kill season one year. There was only one dog in my pack that could have possibly had any running dog in her at all and, if she did, it sure wasn't much. I have also watched lines of dogs that I like very much slowly lose the "tree" as they are bred down the line. As mentioned before, its all in the satisfaction of the man hunting them. Myself, I will not try to teach a dog to tree and I will not wait until they are two to three years old for them to tree just the same as I will not wait that long for them to trail, strike, etc. I've heard many say that some of the best dogs start late, take awhile to tree, etc and I will not disagree but, as for myself, I will not wait that long to find out and its worked for me.

[Trueblue]

Problem with what I see here in ms in the woods we hunt is that tree dogs can't hold out and keep up with the running dogs on long races.

How long ? At what point do the tree hounds fall behind ? Have you run any strains of tree hounds that are considered to be fast and have good endurance ? I'm just wondering if you are comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges ? Obviously if you through in some big old blue dog out of tree stock or something like that which wasn't bred for speed and endurance there would definitely be a sharp contrast.No doubt a lot of what is out there in the tree dog world is bred for coon hunters and the above listed qualities are not at the top of the list in their breeding program but those qualities may be considered essential in other strains which are bred specifically for the purpose of catching types of game that require speed and endurance.

[Jkohnke]

I don't know much about tree dog lines. I'm familiar with a little tree n walker breeding. But yes any tree dogs here are bred for coin hunting. My daddy has 2 male Blueticks. Not sure of there breeding but if they put in a 3 hr race on any kind a game they are useless the next day. Not saying they don't want to hunt they just can't after a hard race. Not taking away from tree dogs they do what their bred to do. Long hard races day after day the ones here just don't hold out.

[jcathunter]

I don't know much about tree dog lines. I'm familiar with a little tree n walker breeding. But yes any tree dogs here are bred for coin hunting. My daddy has 2 male Blueticks. Not sure of there breeding but if they put in a 3 hr race on any kind a game they are useless the next day. Not saying they don't want to hunt they just can't after a hard race. Not taking away from tree dogs they do what their bred to do. Long hard races day after day the ones here just don't hold out.

I surely wouldn't want a dog that was useless after a 3hr race. If mine have been laid off for a month during the summer and get a nice hard race within the first few trips out, they may be spent for that day but they will hunt the next day and that is only until they get back in shape.

[Jkohnke]

But after a 3 hr race my dad is spent too so they get along fine haha. A man should hunt what he enjoys and the heck with what other people think. He wouldn't have my running dogs and I wouldn't have his blue dogs.

[jcathunter]

But after a 3 hr race my dad is spent too so they get along fine haha. A man should hunt what he enjoys and the heck with what other people think. He wouldn't have my running dogs and I wouldn't have his blue dogs.

And that is the best answer yet!!

[slowandeasy]

Quote jcathunter : Willie, it sounds to me like you are saying that, without running blood, a dog will catch a small percentage of bobcats and the owner will try to make the bobcat sound uncatchable??? Is that correct?


Sir,

To a certain extent yes. One has to remember all the tree hound breeds were running hound culls. Running hounds that would tree. And when they arrived on the scene they showed up with stamina and running gear that any houndsmen would truly admire. Now the vast majority in the tree dog world have let those characteristics slip away. Not all of them but most. And although I enjoy a power house tree dog as much as anyone. I am pretty sure many foot steps need to take place before our hounds get to crawl up on the wood and saying OK I gotem boss. Unless their owners are content treeing trees?


Now remember what I said. NOT ALL BUT MOST. It sounds like you may have some of the good ones that are out there. And there are a few if a guy has a clue where to start looking within each breed. But it would be foolish to believe that we have to kick them out of the way there's so many. And even the good ones will struggle back to back hard races multiple days. Hell I've fed beagles with more sand than some of the stuff being peddled in the tree dog world. But their just running dogs with half their legs chopped off. Again HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!



Take care, Willie

[Flip]

Every body hunts different and likes different qualities of dogs and I feel there is always a better dog out there and if a guy keeps an open mind in trying something new or a new stock it makes us better hunters and appreciate better dogs.after all u get out what u put into it and even when u think u have the best pack for what your doing its fun to venture out

[Flip]

One more thing I wanted to add. I don't believe tree breed dogs are any less tough than running dogs I think it matters on the stock your hunting I've see strong and week in both although running dogs can be far more athletic and tree bred dogs can be a lot more natural on trailing and treeing. I think the case here has more to do with finding the stock of dogs with the combined qualities to better suit the man hunting them.thats the real challenge.a person takes a lot of pride in the hard work it takes to make a good hound and gets closed minded easily