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It will be hard to catch a cat on the ground, if, they chose to tree when pressured. And a catch, is a catch, I would be happy if they all treed when pressured hard enough, most here do. Al

merlo_105 wrote:The thing is where cats get hunted or pressured heavy they start getting out of dodge so your jumps aren't always going to be tight where a dog could actually run it down. Sounds like a lot of Cat's over there in Montana are shot when tree'd, there not ran again and again. Virgin Cat's are always easier for the most part

We have a kill season that lasts only 3 weeks, with a limit of 4 per person, so only a small percent of the treed bobcats in the area I hunt are shot.

Unreal_tk wrote:Duane,

Quit comparing bobcat hunting to other styles of hunting. Catching a bobcat on the ground vs a lion are two very different things.

I am not comparing it at all. I agree in my case it is two different things entirely. This lion thing got drug in because apparently my dogs are second rate bobcat dogs that don't run to catch. I had originally tried to point out that my dogs don't appear to be afraid of cats that are a lot bigger.

I started this post originally to try to explain how jumped pressured bobcats in my area do not run at all like they run on the coast. So now it appears that I have second rate bobcat dogs and I have never seen a real bear dog.

After finally coming to the realization that I am feeding a bunch of culls I am not sure if I should get drunk or seek counseling

I would definantly throw the weed away!!!!!!!!! Just yankin your chain a little lol......... You buy the feed and fuel,if they make you happy hunt the crap out of them! Dont worry what anybody else thinks.

Back when i was a young buck we would cold trail cats for an hour or two and then get a screaming jump on them when they were bedded up or on a kill or whatever .Nowadays they start moving out as soon as they hear a dog bark and the dogs have to make what I call a running jump .
Another thing to remember is it doesn't matter how good your dogs are there will ALWAYS be someone who doesn't like them for whatever reason .

mark wrote:I would definantly throw the weed away!!!!!!!!! Just yankin your chain a little lol......... You buy the feed and fuel,if they make you happy hunt the crap out of them! Dont worry what anybody else thinks.

I was just getting ready to send you a PM asking you to overnight me some Oregon weed.

Another guy that hunts in my area with Black & Tans has the last several years told me he will kick my ass yet with his black dogs. He stopped in a little bit ago and said he treed 4 bobcats out of the last 5 turnouts. With all my afflications I am starting to realize how Job of the bible must of felt.

Duane I am glad you post, keep after it. Even if a few people razz you its nice to see another viewpoint from somebody who knows a thing or two.

Now that's something I would like to hear about from everyone. Are cats faster then dogs? I won't lie I don't know myself. I've seen dogs swarm a cat like it was stuck in slow motion. And I have seen some gain on the dogs. Mostly this is semi open brush country or plains. Otherwise I consider its terrain causing the variation. And I'm only saying races you can see clearly. That takes most of them out of consideration.
But a few times I've seen a cat stretch out and out run a fast dog. It interest me mostly because of the variation. I guess you can kinda see it in some lions in the right terrain. And there's sure enough fast bears and those bears that are slow or just can't be hurried. But it really isn't the kind of difference I've seen in bobcats. I know everyone's busy saying what's possible and what's just poor dogs. But I have truthfully seen cats out run dogs that could see them and were very intent on catching them. Maybe a handful of times but it still happened.

pegleg wrote:Now that's something I would like to hear about from everyone. Are cats faster then dogs? I won't lie I don't know myself.

I don't know either, but here is my opinion in answering your question:

It depends.

It depends on the cat and on the dog and the conditions.

I have seen snow conditions that nearly any coonhound could and would catch up to a cat.

I agree with Duane that the average speed of many hounds over a certain length of time and distance is going to be greater than the average speed of the cat over that time and distance.

A high school cross country race is 2.5 miles. You could say that whoever is ahead at the end of that race is the fastest, even if he trailed until the last 50 yards. In that sense, I believe most bobcat hounds are faster than most bobcats.

I also believe there are bobcat dogs that can match that bobcat sprint. But I have never seen it happen on a completely fresh bobcat. I have witnessed it more than once on a cat that has been jumped for fifteen or twenty minutes.

From what I have seen with my sorry dogs, bobcats are not usually "running" when pursued, but trotting. You might see them running, but following tracks in the snow reveals that it is because they are crossing an opening like a road and then revert to their trotting or walking when they feel hidden. When I have witnessed or observed tracks of them running it is for a short distance. I just don't think they are capable of sprinting long distances. I always liked seeing the running cat tracks in the snow because usually it meant I was on my way to a treed or caught cat.

And logic tells me that a running cat caught by dogs was out ran. In other words, the dogs were faster than the cat.

I have seen a lot of hounds that do not have that overdrive gear. I have needed just one that does.

If you have ever watched a border collie jet around a group of unruly sheep to get in front of them and cut them off, then you can visualize that 5th gear. Some hounds have it. If they have that and are running to catch, and your race lasts more than thirty or forty minutes on reasonable ground in good conditions, you better get her to the vet because she is not feeling too good; Or as Finney would say "that's a good cat"!

If a hound isn't looking at the cat, it can't run any faster than its nose lets it.
This has been the best thread on here in a long time, I'm enjoying it.

Good to see you scrub runner. Yes, when I speak of that 5th gear it is reserved for when the dog hears or sees the cat.

I had a really sleek built little Plott that I would excersize with my bicycle. With some work I got her up to running as fast as I could peddle that thing, and I thought she was at her top. Then one day while at that top the youngster saw a rabbit up ahead and left me like I was standing still. It's a beautiful thing.

I should say that in all these posts I am not recommending a catch dog in areas where bobcats will tree. The European horse men went to great lengths to slow their dogs down and or breed in the "no catch" trait. It is because they hunted for the race. Many of is hunt for the race also. As Finney said "I don't want them to get away" yet he wanted the longest race possible. It was all about the "opry". If your dogs do not catch cats on the ground and tree them after a nice long race, you are the most blessed of all.

A twenty minute race for Finney was a huge disappointment.

AS fast as his nose lets him. Lets think about this statement. On a jumped bobcat the hound should be running the scent funnel, he is immersed in scent. My belief is that he can run as fast as he can running in the scent funnel. Now the problem comes in when the cat squats most hounds will over run it and the cat will go down its back track sometimes running head on to the next dog. The other thing that happens is the cat being pushed faster than he can run [ and yes a bobcat hound can easily out run a bobcat] the cat will dodge one way or the other again the lead hound will over shot the cat. Now imagine 6 to 10 hounds running a bobcat, all dogs will not be in the lead and some will be beside the leader running for the lead, the cat dodges right or left caught cat or the cat squats and the lead dogs over run it. If you got slower dogs, caught cat if not the bobcat going down his back track is the hardest loose to pick up. My dogs had better be running as fast as they can on a jump, their speed gets in the way not their nose. I might add that a dog that over runs a track repeatedly does not stay around here long. There are no perfect bobcat dogs even though some maybe close. with that said a well handle, well balanced pack of strait bobcat dogs is a wonder to see work. I recommend everyone to tag a long to watch if you have the chance. Names that come to mind are Tom, Mark,Curt, Butch, Teddy and I am sure I missed a few but those are the ones that come to mind. Good hunting Dewey

David correct me if I way off base. I have hunted with Finney also and yes he liked a good hard race. I have hunted 7 states and have not yet listen to a jumped bobcat race with the dogs up under a bobcat driving last 20 minutes. I have listen to several races with the dogs doing a great job last for hours, but the long hard races the dogs are making little looses, maybe only a minute or two but just enough that the cat gets the break he needs. I believe a bobcat can not out run the dogs for 20 minutes without the dogs making looses. If the dogs are truly up under him driving to catch. I have turned out on bobcats crossing the road and the dogs catch then in minutes time and time again. David are you going to make out here for awhile this winter? Hope to see you. Dewey

david wrote:I should say that in all these posts I am not recommending a catch dog in areas where bobcats will tree. The European horse men went to great lengths to slow their dogs down and or breed in the "no catch" trait. It is because they hunted for the race. Many of is hunt for the race also. As Finney said "I don't want them to get away" yet he wanted the longest race possible. It was all about the "opry". If your dogs do not catch cats on the ground and tree them after a nice long race, you are the most blessed of all.

A twenty minute race for Finney was a huge disappointment.

A tree sure can ruin a good race. Once a mans been around for awhile, the easy ones are a disappointment. It's the tough ones that he measures his hounds by, and watching them excel on the hard to catch is what brings the most enjoyment. Watching them fail on the hard to catch is what keeps him looking for and hoping for something better. Always in pursuit of a better mouse trap. That's what keeps him lying in bed awake at night.