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Good stuff in your post, right on the money. Though I do believe our governor gets a bit the blame for not taking the chance to fix it. I hear from those who know, he would not sign a bill backed by a lobbist he detested.

The rulles the commission are working on are mainly to keep the ODFW out of trouble with lawsuits in my opinion. They for the most part were not looking to use houndsmen except in a few districts. It's easyer to use the feds and duck the lawsuits and fallout.
Can't blame them there.

I don't beleive a ballot measure will get our hunting back, not because we would lose the vote, but because it's way harder to get it on the ballot now with the changes.
I think we need a few more years getting some airtight facts and ammo to get a solid run thru the State legislative process. This will take a big warchest and some heavyweight hitters. Most of all it will take overwhelming fact. No human safty concerns or hype, just solid wildlife management facts.

As houndsmen I think we need to boost our image a bit, aline ourselves with wildlife managers, get ourselves ready for a winning battle, and then kick butt.
Lets learn from the last two runs at this and not throw good energy and money into a loseing fight.
Just my 2 cents worth. RS

well for me it is like this for me ,i recently decided to take a brake from all this for a while.and raise my kids up,i dont know if we ever will get it back,today its no to important to me right now.to many people have exploited the image of the houndsmen/women,dummies gettin caught outlawn,just plain ol being ignorant.then the other guys shootin everthing they tree.they should charge people for being ignorant.............all the hounds went to good homes.thanks to tim and his wife nora,i hope those 2 b/t pups worked out for those guys.when i get back to hounds ,i will give you guys a call.you guys are great .will keep in touch

Buddyw wrote:http://www.biggamehoundsmen.com/buddyw/commission_statement.pdf

Dont wet your shorts boys & gals quite cryen and stand up and go too the committee meetings with the commettee members names and congress names and governors name on sighns and above it in big bold print :
PUBLIC UNREST AND OUTCRY STOP TYRENTIZESM
SAY YES TO HOUND GAME SEASON
HUNTING

I PROBABLY WON'T BE GETTING MUCH SUPPORT ON THIS TOPIC .BUT AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED UNTIL THE ALDRICH CABLE SNARES GO AWAY, OUT RIGHT BANNED . WE AS DOG HUNTERS WILL NEVER GET OUR HUNTING BACK IN OREGON! IF WE DON'T TELL ODF@W TO GO BLOW . WE ARE ONLY SHOOTING OURSELVES IN THE OTHER FOOT, I HAVE STATED FOR DECADES AS LONG AS WE CAN CO- EXHIST THAT WAS FINE. THINK ABOUT IT WE DON'T CO- EXHIST WITH ANYONE NOT SINCE 1994, NOW LETS ANALIZE THE TIMBER COMPANIES IN WESTERN OREGON, IF YOU ARE A HOUND HUNTER TRY GETTING PERMISSION TO HUNT TIMBERLANDS FOR CATS. THEY WILL TELL YOU THEY ARE THERE FRIENDS. FRIENDLY SPECIES TO THE TIMBER COMPANIES INCLUDE AS FOLLOW, COUGAR, BOBCAT, COYOTES, OR ANY PREDATORY SPECIES THAT HELP THEM PROTECT A TREE. UN-FRIENDLY SPECIES INCLUDE, DEER, ELK, BEAVER, MTN. BOOMER, AND OF COURSE BEAR. I A'M SICK AND TIRED OF THE GAME COMMISSION PANDERING TO THE TIMBER COMPANIES , THESE OUTFITS LIKE WEYERHAUSER, BOISE, STIMSON. ETC. KNOW THEY CONTROL THE ODF@W IF THEY DON'T CONFORM TO THE TIMBER COMPANIES REQUEST THEY THREATEN TO SHUT DOWN THERE TIMBER LANDS TO THE BIGGEST USERS DEER AND ELK HUNTERS. ANY BODY EVER HERE THE PHRASE IF YOU DON'T HAVE NOTHING YOU DON'T HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE. WELL WE AS HOUND HUNTERS DON'T HAVE A DAMN THING TO LOSE FROM THIS POINT. I'M FED UP WITH MY TAX DOLLARS SUPPORTING APHIS, FEDERAL TRAPPERS SLAUGHTERING THE BEARS WITH NO RECOURSE. YOU THINK FOR ONE MINUTE THESE GUYS CAN RUN A TRAP LINE IN THE VALLEY , THAN MAINTAIN CABLE SNARES IN THE MOUNTAINS, WELL THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY HOURS IN A DAY.IF YOU SAY YES TO THIS I WILL FORWARD YOU PLENTY OF VIDEO FOOTAGE OF BEARS THAT ARE LEFT IN THE SNARES ,BECAUSE THERE TRULY IS ONLY SO MANY HOURS IN A DAY, AS TOLD TO ME BY THE OREGON STATE POLICE AND I QUOTE(YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THESE GUYS ARE FEDERAL) AND TO TOP IT OFF WE LOST OUR HUNTING IN OREGON TO WHAT???? NON ETHICAL TREATMENT TO ANIMALS!!! ANY ONE WHO VOULENTEERS A BREATH OF AIR TO THE ODF@W IS TOTALLY CLUELESS.AGAIN IF YOU FIND MY COMMENTS OFFENSIVE E-MAIL ME I WILL FORWARD YOU ALL THE VIDEO YOU WANT TO SEE. I'M NOT ANTI TRAPPER, REASONABE TRAPPERS DO REASONABLE THINGS AS WELL AS ETHICAL THINGS. THESE GUYS WORKING FOR THE TIMBER COMPANIES ARE JUST SLAUGHTER'S

JUST A WORD OF CAUTION TO THOSE THINKING ABOUT JUMPING ON THE GAME COMMISSION BANDWAGON. WHEN ODF@W AUTHORIZES A PERMIT FOR ANYTHING IN OREGON , IT ISN'T ALWAYS LEGAL. THE AUTHORITY HAVING JURISDICTION IN OREGON IS THE STATE POLICE. NOT ODF@W, YOU CAN VENTURE OUT WITH PERMIT IN HAND , BUT WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM AND TRUST ME THERE ALWAYS IS . ODF@W IS EXEMPT FROM ANY LIABILITY ASSOCIATED WITH AUTHORIZING A PERSON A PERMIT TO HUNT, OREGON LAW SAYS THAT ANY PERSON WILL KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THE LAW PERIOD , AND IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE, HOW DO I KNOW ?WELL I WAS GIVEN A PERMIT TO HUNT BLACK BEAR , I HAD MY PERMIT IN HAND, KEY IN MY POCKET, BEHIND LOCKED GATES , HUNTING FOR THE TIMBER COMPANY, SEEMS THAT CAPTAIN LINDSAY BALL AND OFFICER WALT MARKEE DIFFERED WITH THE INTERPERTATION OF THE PERMIT. GUESS WHAT I WAS CHARGED WITH 7 COUNTS OF ILLEGALLY TAKING BLACK BEARS IN A CLOSED SEASON. CONVICTED OF ALL 7 COUNTS. SENTENCED TO A CHARGE OF DISCHARGE. AS THIS WAS THE NUMBER OF BEARS I HAD TAKEN FOR THE TIMBER COMPANY THRU ODF@W, PERMITS , WHAT I FOUND OUT ABOUT ODF@W IS A JOKE, THEY DONT RUN NOTHING BUT A TAG SELLING SCAM, AS FOR THE TIMBER COMPANY THEY DIDN'T WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH ME EITHER, ALL I WAS DOING WAS WHAT JIM HEINTZ OF THE ODF@W AUTHORIZED ME TO DO! AND IT WAS NOT LEGAL. THE JUDGE WAS ABLE TO RECOGNISE THIS AND DIDN'T FINE ME A PENNY, BUT I HAD TO HIRE A LAWYER AND SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO DEFEND MYSELF. LATER ON I HAD MANY DEALINGS IN S.W OREGON ,WORKING WITH ODF@W'S JOHN THIEBES, ROSEMARY STUSSY OUT OF CENTRAL POINT OREGON ,WHAT I EXPERIENCED THERE WAS THE SAME DEAL, I WAS HUNTING FOR A WINERY IN CAVE JUNCTION OREGON. I WAS GIVEN A PERMIT TO TAKE PROBLEM BEARS ,I WOULD JUST FORWARD THE PERMIT TO O.S.P. THEY WOULD IN TURN REJECT THE PERMIT ,AS THEY HAD A DIFFERENT OPINION OF THE LAW , I HAVE PLAYED THIS GAME HERE SINCE 1980 WHEN I FIRST STARTED DOING DAMAGE CONTROL IN OREGON . MY CONCLUSION IS THIS O.S.P., ODF@W, ALL TIMBER COMPANIES ARE A JOKE. THEY HAVE NO USE FOR A HOUND HUNTER PERIOD. THE ONLY WAY TO BREAK THESE DOGS FROM SUCKING EGGS IS TO FIGHT THEM BACK .14 YEARS HAVE PASSED , THE DOG HUNTERS ARE THE VERMIN OF THE EARTH !MEANWHILE THE TIMBER COMPANIES USE CABLE SNARES TO KILL PROBLEM BEARS USING OUT TAX DOLLARS , KEEP IN MIND THE FEDERAL TRAPPER HAS TO MAINTAIN HIS COYOTE TRAP LINE IN THE LOW LANDS , RUN HIS HOUNDS ON PROBLEM BEAR AND COUGAR, THAN IN HIS SPARE TIME RUN A BUNCH OF CABLE SNARES FOR THE TIMBER COMPANIES. WOW, YOU GUESSED IT, HOW HUMANE DO YOU THINK THESE GUYS ARE , I GET SICK AND TIRED OF THE HOUND HUNTERS LABELED AS BAD IMAGE PEOPLE , WELL I GUARANTEE YOU IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THESE BASTARDS ARE DOING IN OREGON THE HOUND HUNTERS CAN'T HOLD A CANDLE TO THEM, I WAS SNOWED OUT IN CENTRAL OREGON LAST DECEMBER, SO I WENT TO THE ALSEA AREA CAT HUNTING WAS STOPPED BY A LINCOLN COUNTY SHERIFFS OFFICER ON FALL CREEK , I WAS TOLD IS WAS TRESPASSING AND SINCE I HAD A RIFLE IN THE TRUCK IT WAS CRIMINAL TRESPASS! SEEMS WEYERHAUSER PAYS PART OF HIS SALARY TO PATROL THE LOGGING ROADS FOR THEM . I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ANYONE ELSE BUT I HAVE HAD A GUT FULL OF THIS!!!

Just my humble thoughts...I have been voting since I turned 18 and that was too many years ago to count now but let's just say close to 30. In that time and since that law was passed in OR I have met more young people and even young hound hunters that still do not vote. Sad to say I even know some people in their 30's and 40's that still do not. But I sure do hear them bitch when things change and did not go the way they wanted. I also know plenty of people that did vote to outlaw the running of hounds in OR simply because it was not as popular here and they just were not educated and did not know then what they do now. I remember the year that was voted on and for people that had no idea of hound hunting the ballot really did a good job in making it sound like a horror story way of hunting and almost abuse! Too late now. But to me, that is not in blam of the 'uneducated'....it is to those that don't vote, didn't then or now still...and complain. Can't go back and undo what is already done...but I know there are still ALOT of young people out there that are still not stepping up to the plate and voting or writing letters or doing whatever needs to be done to educate people. I guess from my thoughts and what I've learned since that law passed here is the lack of education for the people that are voting and really have never heard of hound hunting other then what they read in the ballot book....and the people that do not take the time to vote...only to bitch later. It's pretty hard to go door to door to try to explain it all to people--even harder to take out a stranger hunting to see if you can 'change' their point of view if against hound hunting. So what next? I'd say if you don't vote, you might give it some thought from now on. The next time a stranger sees you with your dogs and asks you simple innocent questions you might take the time to indulge on their curiousity. It's the people that were not familiar with or uneducated completely that passed this law. Not all the lawmakers, etc...now it is a double jeopardy today---convincing the uneducated it is not abuse and why needed along with the legislators. But hey on the brighter side---it took some time, a lot of lost hounds and Elk, deer, moose, whatever.....and those wolves were dropped off the list even if just slightly, in getting control again over that madness. So there is chance....in the future. For those of you that don't vote or get involved, only sit on the sidelines and complain---I'd suggest it's about time you get off your ass now and do so! Again...just my two cents....I'm just getting into this hound thing, so I don't know as much as you all. But I do remember when this was on the ballot...and in 'starting' I ask and learn why it was voted as it was and what little people know. And I know some hound hunters now, that were not then...and did not vote...hmmmm. Sure there is more then a couple! Just my thoughts on the entire issue...hope I don't offend or make anyone mad!

This is NOT a houndsman issue. This is a hunter’s issue. Cougars ARE a biggame animal in Oregon. Where is the line in this “plan”? When are we going to send “volunteers” out to manage elk? deer or bears?
We use these resources to generate revenue. This in turn funds management (including law enforcement). If we use “volunteers” where is the funding for the future hunters in my state?
I’m not sure what everyone expects of ODF&W but they have been clear in literature and verbally that “the most effective way to manage cougar populations is hounds”. They have maintained their credibility by not saying anything pre 1994. How? Well if they had said “the most effective way to manage cougars in Oregon is hounds before 1994 the anti would simply ask, “How do you know this”? “Oregon has not tried any other means” and they would have lost credibility. Now they have research indicating this or we wouldn’t be implementing a “plan” to address cougar populations.
Do we have a population issue? I think yes. When you can cut several cougar tracks a day as well as tree two a day in two totally different drainages within 10 mile of each other, this compiled with our dwindling deer population in those same areas, I have to think yes. I don’t think cougars are the only factor but I think a strong factor.
The cougar “plan” was supported by every complaint made. OHA was a huge driving force behind the “plan” (maybe not so much as “the plan” but “a plan”. However the solution has to be legal.
Example: War on Meth
Problem: There is a strong correlation between meth use and child abuse as well as crime.
Solution: Test everyone, shot everyone that tests positive.
Don’t make much since does it? So to think using this approach will work in solving this issue is silly. Would you honestly vote for someone who actually presented this? (Be careful how you answer. Remember that one time in college?)
To expect any ONE person to overturn the will of the people is silly, whether it be Ted, or anyone else.
It is my responsibility to feed, water and care for my hounds. It is my responsibility to do my part in restoring and preserving wildlife in my state. I accept it!!
What do you need me to do?