BigGameHoundsmen.com

this is a trick ? every man that has a hound will say he is a hounds men.
Some have hounds that lay around on the couch and never hunt but thier well taken care of.
A person that hunts his hounds in season and works with them in the off season, feeds waters, and doctors his hounds , if he catches game or not as long as he buts a 100% into his hounds and they return the favor by giving back a 100% then you have a houndsman.

David, the reason why I admired perks post, and respected it, was the man, nailed it period. No disrespect to Daniels post, but I didnt agree with some of it, but respected it, and liked some things also, In my opinion, houndsmen, means dog trainer, and owner. I know of some old time guys, which had shit for hounds, but put as much on the tailgate as any man, and more then most. Because they knew the game, where it crossed, and got it killed. If you noticed, dads dog boy or myself, which showed respect to it, are two guys that has been born, raised, and owned lines of great dogs, yes lines. He has cat dogs, I have bear. I was taught by my grandfather,which has 65 years of dogs, and hunting, I got 35 years under my belt. I'm sure dog boy is also. Food for thought. I hope guys can also add some things to this post, I was giving respect, where respect is due.

I have to admit, I've got a pretty short attention span. If something gets longer than about 1 paragraph I've already forgot the first part of it.

Houndsman KNOW and can read dogs to a T, period.

Woodsman know critters, terrain and patterns.

If you find a guy who's both, you've got a pretty lethal combo.

You guys have raised some very valid points . To me a priority is with the knowledge that I have being TRUE to yourself and your hounds even when you are hunting alone .Not taking the EASY way out.

Woodsmanship. Everybody forgets about woodsmanship. That’s why 10-20% of the hunters catch 80-90% of the game. Those are two good points Nolte has made. All this other stuff is correct for some or in many ways for others but for me the hound guy I’ll respect the most does all their hound stuff to a T, is successful anytime thru any type of hunt or hunting because of their woodsmanship (hound hunting is just more dear to their hearts) but they also juggle all their responsibilities of life and family to a T. Just as successful at home. Meaning working a regular job and providing, not shurking their family duties at all. Knowing when to pick up the hounds and knowing when to lay down the hounds. All the while catching their share. Nolte’s two points basically just require time, exposure and experience to be better at either. Granted just like these old dogs some are going to be better than others, some will learn quicker than others and some just won’t ever make it period. I think there’s a shortcut here lots of folks take, they put everything else in life on hold and spend every moment playing this game. I think it’s the easy way out. Some can and that’s great for them. Most of us will never get to because we have to work to live or have more than just ourselves and our dogs counting on us to live and have decent stuff at home. Now or whenever I’m gone someday that’s all I care about anybody saying or thinking about me. JMO-Later

I know some guys who run hounds but they are not houndsmen. One guy drops every thing that goes up a tree the other guy will have treed 7 cats then the the next time you talk to him it's 16 and you know he hasn't been out more than 3 times in between.

So there's lots of guys with hounds, and lots catch tons of game and lots have good dogs but something disqualifies them from being houndsmen in my mind.

In my opinion it's simpler than a long list and I don't care how good your dogs are, anyone can BUY a good dog. That definitely doesn't make you a houndsman.

You have to love ,respect and work your dogs and understand they are the only reason you are in the game and the only reason you should be in the game. Any other motivation and you won't be in it too long or be very happy while you are.

You have to be truthful and if you tell me a good story I want to walk away thinking "that would have been a blast to be in on that one" not "I wonder how much of that is true"

And this one was already stated, you have to have admiration and respect for the quarry of your choice.

I think with these three qualities you are a houndsman. You may not be the best at getting game. You may not have been in it the longest. You may not breed dogs. You may be in strange country and not know where the crossings are or wintering grounds lie.
Your just a good honest hard working person that I would be proud to go hunting with whatever stage of this game you are at but you're still a houndsman.

You have to be truthful and if you tell me a good story I want to walk away thinking "that would have been a blast to be in on that one" not "I wonder how much of that is true"

Stubby, Well said, I agree. This is exactly what I meant in my post about being honest.

There has been some great stuff said so far...keep it coming. This is a great post!

I am glad it's being answered it sure gives you a idea of who to hunt with if the chance ever come up doesn't it? I have seen that if a houndsman is successful ever one thinks no matter what he does it must be right. to me thats B.S!! I know people with money but that don't mean they know how to handle it or make more, hell they may not even have a realistic value for it compared to things like family or friends. to me i'd rather hunt with someone I didn't feel like culling on the hill and coming on back to camp. and I feel I am lenient on folks faults. you hear some stupid ideas out there and it makes you wonder where they come from like you can absolutely pick the best pup out of a litter, if that was true we'd all be hunting top dogs! you can put the ingredients in there, you can expose it but there's something extra in a top hound you can't control.. we have to many different requirements to get it right every time. it's like you get some folks that think well shit i've been there and done it for thirty years. I have to know more about it then that young guy! yeah; you should but that doesn't mean he won't surpass you and it don't mean you can't learn or even relearn something once in awhile. I think the best have a curiosity about hounds and game that keeps them moving forward and learning all the time. I know its different across the country but some ideas have caused problems in the breeding of hounds. one of the main problems is we don't know our other houndsmen as good as we believe and can't say he's running hounds like mine and see's things about the way I do or not. keep going guys and expound on how the type of hounds man a guy is affects what he want's, expects and finally runs as hounds, and please don't say the best. explain the building blocks. I can't think of any group where the code of behavior is so hidden from new comers. cooners have nite hunt rules, bird doggers etc. do you try and educate new hunters to the ethics or just show them the basics?

cat and bear wrote:David,
I was giving respect, where respect is due.

I have a goofy way of saying things, and I guess I must have totally lost you on my post cat and bear. But I think Perks post was one of the best ever. Sorry it did not come across that way. When I said stuff like:

"The thing I like best about this thread is that it has freed me of the burden of thinking I ever was a houndman. Now I can just be a guy that loves to catch bobcats with dogs."

It probably sounds like sarcasm. But it is not. Having to live up to a title like: "houndman" is something that just does not apeal to me. I'd rather not. I would much rather just have fun with my dogs in the woods. If you ever see me in the woods you will laugh because I dont wear anything that would identify me as a houndman. I dont have any of the houndman fasion statements. My night hunting light is a little $6.00 double AA penlight that I can hold in my mouth when I need my hands. I keep a couple more in my pocket when I am actually hunting at night. I dont even know the brand of my single shot .22 and it is all I ever needed or wanted. I dont even have a pair of gloves that match, and I hunt in deep sub zero temps. In fact you would likely see me with one glove and one mitten. I just dont care to keep up an immage. I like a pickup, but I dont always have one, and when I dont have one you will see me in a $400 '91 Geo prism with chains on, or some station wagon cause I just dont care. If it can get me within walking of some cat habitat, I will get one going, and That is all me or my dogs care about. I dont care to fit the definition of a houndman. If the definition fits me, that is fine.

But again, I think Perks post was extra fine, and in fact inspired. I cant see how he could just sit down and write it in one sitting. Sorry that did not come through on my post.

This is a great place. Truck driving is a lonely sport... a lot like bobcat hunting for the solo hunter. So it sure is nice to be able to come here when I can and find like minded freinds... houndmen or not, doesnt matter to me. freinds for sure.

David wrote,

I have had individuals that I would sure like to reproduce, but they were not pure bred, and I think it would take a bankload of money and an army of hard hunters to get that solidified into a reliably reproducing breed.

So....... what exactly is "pure bred"? Is this even important as far as catching bobcats?

I know when I'm hunting snowshoe hare, they don't seem to be terribly concerned whether the dogs I use have their paper work in order or not.
Maybe cats are different

David wrote,

I would much rather just have fun with my dogs in the woods.

Reading a few of the posts in this thread had me worried.
I feel better after reading this part of yours.

ok there's PAPERED and then there's PUREBRED. they aren't the always the same nor do they always mean anything. but to me purebred is this the parents have the same style and they match up pretty damn close on everything they aren't from two completely opposite ends of the dna spectrum. so when you breed them their pups will be a nice even merger of the two and they will resemble BOTH parents. these traits and attributes are anything your breeding for physical, mental, instinctual,etc. now papered says that the ancestors of these animals where known and recorded for several generations. they don't have to even be the same breed for this to happen it's just has to be noted down somewhere that it happened. I'd love to have pure bred pups that i knew would all turn out to be as close in as many ways that I'm looking for as possible because then when I breed a litter of pups I know that a good percentage is goin to end up cat dogs because they have the attributes. will there be culls ? yes but not as many.

When your photo album has more pictures of your dogs than anything else.

We skirt this all the time and there are always B.S undertones to some post questioning it. My question is to YOU what does it take to be a good houndsman? I don't want to know who's well known that should only come after the good part if it does. I want to know what ideal you measure yourself against every time you look at your hounds or go out. Don't be shy maybe everyone can get a better ideal from this topic!! and be a man don't bash anyone just tell us what you strive to be.

When I read this stuff it always worries me because I realize that I'm "different". Good thing David likes to post here, makes me feel more normal

I don't measure myself against anything. The thought never occured to me. I strive to be a good employee, husband, father and grandfather, but these damn dogs keep getting in the way. I never strived to be a good houndsman. I think being a houndsman is a lot like being an alcoholic. The biggest difference is that I know several recovering alcoholics that have given up drinking

What is a good houndsman? I don't know??? I'm not sure the two words should go together

Andrew is right,if it is all about the hounds you are a Houndsmen.Andrew his Dad and brother are just that.Also the most fun men to hunt with that live.Old Curt

Norwester,

A pedigree on Hounds should serve as a Genetic Blueprint for future matings, That is what Good Breeders in almost all forms of livestock production use them for. Some people however use them as Marketing Tools. We sure do not subscribe to that way of thinking.

They are also a form of record keeping...name one successful Business or Person who does not keep good records.

Pegleg we are on the same Page ref. the above subject...damn you must be SMART!

Now back to this Houndsman topic. All the posters are correct in what they are posting, however many are posting their "Feelings" rather than their "Thinking". Not wrong...just a symptom of our Society today. Might be why we have the President that we do. Folks tend to Feel and reflect rather than THINK and act!

Just My Thoughts...Just like Hound Styles and Types, There is NO Correct answer to the Topic, although Perk, David and some others hit very close to Dad's and my way of thinking. There have been few True Houndsmen and are fewer now!

CJC