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Along dang way!

Mike Leonard wrote:Brent,

I have always said that a lion will travel then again as much as half as far as he will go in a night. LOL! In other words ain't no way of telling till you you catch up to him.

I can remember more times than I care to when I put down on a fresh track in 2" of new snow at day light figurin I'd have a lion up before noon....bad call!!!!!!!!

It seems the more we study lions even with the new GPS methods, we find out just how little we really do know. what happens in one area or range may be vastly different in another. And one mature tom might be a traveler and another might be more of a home boy.

one of our big toms is living real comfortable not leaving more than a 6 miles area from where we collared him 2 months ago, one other big tom ...well ,,,,we havn't found him since we collared him 2 months ago !!!!!

All I can tell you is I seem to be very good at being at the wrong place at the wrong time to get on the short end of a lion's track.

I guess if we caught a lion everytime we went out and knew every thing they were up to it would get boaring after awhile,
Some real interesting comments guys!!!!

Just read about another one a sub adult male that was collared in Black Hill of SD and was roadkilled in Oklahoma. 900km in a straight line.

Big Mike,I think the lion you were talking about in Arizona was a 4 y.o. tom that was collared and tracked for 8 m0nths before it was killed.This lion was captured in the Tortolita Mountains just north of Tucson.This lion covered 600 hundred square miles and went in elevations from 7,450ft-1,950ft.It was tracked in the Catalina mountains where it spent most of it's time,but was also tracked in the Picacho mountain and the Black mountains.The lion was eventually killed in the tortolita mountains where it was originally captured.

Ryan

I would say that the lions that travel those great distances say 400-900 miles or 640km-1440km are more the exception than the rule; these GPS collars are poking holes in the Hornocker study every day and are gathering more information than could ever have been gathered by compass and directional antenna. Some of this info is a little hard for the non neutral scientist to handle and they completely omitted some information from their thesis writings for the sole purpose of backing up their hypothesis. It happens on both sides of any wildlife study, I been there and seen it. All I want is the facts based on nothing more than good science, without emotion or agenda driven data. How many domestic animals were killed by lions in a prey analysis that went unreported for the sake of the lion? This is just a question directed at no one, but one that I hope will get people to think. Look at the global warming debacle and how far some are willing to go to prove their hypothesis. Some of those that have been lucky enough to work on a project are just the catcher; they have no say on the matter as they see it and most of the data is never shown to them, or anyone else for that matter. All that a side, I think it is great that we have this technology to aid us in better understanding the wildlife we enjoy and respect so much and help put away some of the myth that has gone along with them. Brent, how far did that big tom travel? Are the animals that these lion preying on migratory? What type of animals do these lion have to prey on? Do some of these lion prefer one type of prey species over another? These are just a few questions, as I could ask a million.

sourdough

Rydog i believe that is the one I was refering to. Thanks for the input.

Years ago one of the lions that was collared up here on the Utah/Idaho border was reported killed down outside of Vegas. Long way, even in a straight line. On a straight shot that would be around 450 miles, but who knows how much back and forth there was along the way?

I read about another male that was collared in the Dakota's and shot by police inside the city limits of Chicago.

Ryan, Thanks for the assistance. The Catalinas are the biggest range in that group, aren't they? Picacho is small, but pretty stinking rough. A lot of that country has sparsely scattered houses around. Maybe Mr. lion was feeding on pooch?

A few years ago I believe it was HoundDawg that sent me a GPS line of a female lion collared I believe by Tooele Utah....it traveled south down towards Richfield Utah....traveled NorthEast across the Uinta Mtns up into Wyoming and someone ended up killing it down in Colorado. I couldn't believe how far that lion had traveled

buddy treed a young Tom here in BC an hour north of kamloops it had a collar and was from idaho...that is a longish walk

Dispersal is a part of life with every living creature on this planet, as well as the key to survival among animals. Genetic diversity is important in order to maintain a healthy population in any species. Before GPS collars if an animal disappeared from a study area the data stopped there, today as you can see from what folks have posted there is much more to learn and try to understand. Have you ever seen an animal completely out of place? An elk shows up on a ranch somewhere that there is no elk, a bighorn sheep shows up some place that it has not been seen for many years. They are there for a few days and never seen again. There are some interesting things going on with GPS collars on other wildlife that is equally interesting that’s for sure. Some of the first data collected from GPS collars were hard to believe and thought to be a malfunction with the equipment and through hunter harvest the information was found to be correct.

Interesting topic!

sourdough

Brent, how far did that big tom travel? Are the animals that these lion preying on migratory? What type of animals do these lion have to prey on? Do some of these lion prefer one type of prey species over another? These are just a few questions, as I could ask a million.

sourdough[/quote]

Sourdough
As close as we can estimate so far he has traveled within about a 200 square mile area...this is what I am thinking is some of his winter range..... if he lives to complete the study it will be interesting to know just how far he moves.
I thought I had 3 big lions,only to find out all those tracks were his!!!!!!
Most of the prey in the study area are resident ungulates, they move out of the canyons on to the lower foothills and ranchland but it is not a migratory movement like I have seen on the strip with the mule deer in Az. or higher elevations with the elk in areas the Big Creek ,Idaho...
We have a good varity of prey elk, mele and whitetail deer, moose ,sheep and alot of smaller game as well.
Nothing yet has showen where a lion has picked one specifis prey, I have always believed that lions will kill what ever they can, they are opportunists and we have found that they will scavenge ALOT more than has been thought.

Mike Leonard said it very well....the more we study lions, the more we find out just how little we realy know about them...well put Mike...

I think it interesting to see how some just plane don't travel and others pack a bag and move the hell out. i doubt we will ever know what truely causes this but it interesting to look into. I also find it interesting when some areas state they have no lion population. it's my experience it's challengeing enough to find them when your looking and improbable that you would see hide or hair if you weren't. I've accidently seen one lion. I hear stories of people seeing them all the time and for the most part don't pay to much attention to them. however one friend who is a nonhunter"prefers golf??" lives in a unusual area he is in the low desert surrounded on three sidea by blm about two sections deep and 12 wide. in this area this isn't normally large enough to support a cat. on top of this the nearest range with a supportable number of wildlife is a bit over ten miles but has a solid band of houseing and highways between him and it.
I enjoy a good bobcat race and this blm land is laid out nice for a fast paced race on horse back. I figured these lions where probably bobcats. i finally got around to hunting his area and found a decent amount of cat tracks north of him and started to ride we hadn't gone far when a fairly fast moveing strike started and headed through the country. I admit the dogs where showing real catty for a cold bobcat track and not moveing fast enough for a hot one. we trailed along for about four miles in total. the whole race had me puzzled untill the last little bit we ended baying a seventy to seventy five pound male in the open. i have never done this before or after but there wasn't a bush in a quarter mile much less a tree. this really got my interest in this area going. if theres one cat there may very well be some truth to my buddies reports of lions. after hunting this area a few years off and on, I have a picture of whats happening although i may be completly wrong. this is a intersection of three larger ranges and any cat that wants across the valley naturally selects it as the best route regardless of where they are headed. the open area has one large wash in it and i have never found a track in there again. but have found kills and small scrapes scattered helterskelter through out the surrounding area I believe its just a attempt of these cats to adapt to the human population. another oddity is there is only a very small number of deer in this whole area. less then twenty total

Brent,
I agree and also think lions scavenge a lot more than is believed from what I have seen over the years. Mike Leonard posted a topic “What are your thought on this” this was a study on whether or not lion take the weak and the sick over healthy animals. My thoughts on the subject are just that, based on what I have seen, a lion will go through the same motions with something they come upon as they do with something they kill and a GPS collar can tell you that they are on a kill, but they can’t tell whether or not they killed it. I also believe once a lion sizes something up and is successful at taking it without injury they will not hesitate in taking that prey animal again if the opportunity presents it’s self regardless of size. Deer may be their primary prey, but nothing is off the list, from the smallest North American mammals to the largest. Thanks Brent for you willingness to share.

sourdough