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I don't usually have long races like you bear hunters, so I don't mind cinching down the collars...don't think it has any negative effects. I put the collars on in the morning before I load 'em and they get excited cause they think they're going hunting. I only have two collars and three dogs so I've just recently taken the shocker off my oldest dog (3.5). I think I've got him bent pretty good most of the time and he heels like a lab without the collar, but I'm sure one of these days he'll need a refresher. For me it's definitely added insurance, but its been a good exercise in learning to trust him now...I feel like I know him and what he's doing most of the time now and I can't be so quick to hit the electricity so now he gets the benefit of the doubt. The only down side is getting them away from the tree as already said, but if I only have to drag one dog out, its better than draggin 3.

Big Mike wrote:All dogs, all the time when hunting. As stated above the tone function has alot of use besides trash breaking. When the dogs get on a back track you can get them stopped and turned around with the tone. When its time to leave a tree or quit a track you can tone them.

X1. Well said

I use mine to stop dogs for recall when they are headed off into la la land. Mine are trained that the beep or slight shock for some thicker headed ones means come back. Its saved them from getting out of range where I can't go and stops them from crossing highways.

call-me-ish wrote:I have never agreed in e-collaring a broke dog without a reason. Is he broke or collar controlled? There is a difference. I understand the argument for preventive measures but agree that performance can be hampered.

I have a distaste for substituing electricity for quality training time and effort.

I have to agree with this comment the most. When you run multiple days in a row and the probes start to wear in the dogs throat I would just think it is too discomforting for the dog. I have seen some badly infected sores on a dogs neck. If you run a loose collar but have it too loose so they dont rub you run the risk of them not working properly and relying on a tone to stop the dog? My dogs respond to a tone as well but sometimes that tone needs to be backed up by a shock. A collar just tight enough to work will still rub. Typically I carry the collars to the tree and put them on there, that is where I would need the control the most and also for the walk out. Very seldom during a race have I wished I had them on the dogs. Anyway lots of good points

dogs get them put on every time they go hunting . its part of the regular hunting gear .

I TRUELY BELEIVE IN THE USE SHOCK COLLARS, REMEMBER YOU ARE THEIR MASTER, THE ALFA , THEY NEED TO SUBMIT, AS FAR AS RUNNING THEM ALL THE TIME, MY ANSWER IS YES, CORRECTION MAY BE NEEDED, BUT I NORMALLY JUST NEED TO " TONE " THEM...AS FAR AS EXPERIENCED DOGS, I JUST ROLL THE COLLAR TO THE SIDE AND NOT TO TIGHT....ONE NEEDS CONTROL OF ALL SITUATIONS...