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Hey Mike. I'm not going to fight on the 20 miles. I am quite curious about the 8 week old pups running cats and his dogs having never ran trash though. If you tell me your dog never ran trash then I assume your dog never ran ANYTHING. Or you caught everything your dog ever barked at. Which again I don't believe. I think I forgot the part about the dogs never trashing in my earlier post. I will say this. I was expecting a little less positive response about the guy and I will give him a call next time I am looking for a dog. You say he runs in utah. Where generally?


Pete, I discovered the same thing when I got my GPS.

but my potlicker "ran cats" when we got him at 12 weeks. He was whelped in a horse barn with a barn cat, and what was left--half the litter--was "treeing" the barn cat when we first laid eyes on him.
As far as "never running trash", that depends on what you are hunting. If you have a broad general notion of what you will chase, its pretty easy to have a naturally straight dog. Again, my potlicker never ran deer. He will run bobcat, fisher, feral housecat, coon, bear and porcupine. He's never gotten a possum but we don't have many of those right here. If there's nothing else around, he might run a rabbit or a gray fox, never a red fox. Since I run him on coon, I get pretty annoyed when he runs some of those things, but, except for the porkies, there are people who would hunt most any of those (not fisher, can't take fisher in front of hounds here).
I suspect you need to parse the language in the ad closely and see if there's a plausible way it could be true, then ask questions. If the guy is honest, he'll be tickled that you thought it through.

Emily, out west if you say your dog never ran trash it should be pretty safe assume that it never ran deer or coyotes. Those thing are pretty much considered trash by everyone since deer hunting with dogs is illegal in all western states. And coyotes can run for half an eternity. There are a few people who run coyotes with dogs but I don't know anyone off hand who runs coyotes with the same dogs they run cats and bears with. I'm sure there are a few but I doubt many are succesful.

If we're just ruling out deer and yotes, I can declare mine naturally straight...He has plenty of opportunities to run both, and has never chased ether. Not that he's uninterested--he'll sniff a deer track, but won't trail on one. As for coyotes, we're alive with them here, and he hasn't chased one yet. He does keep the awa from the yard, though.
I do have friends in NY that use their dogs on both yotes and other game. However, those are mostly running dogs, not treedogs.

I can't comment much on the 8 weeks or no trash stuff cuz I haven't seen his dogs do either. sounds a little strong, but what the heck go see him and ask him to show you. I have an old phot of two Goswick bred pups a bluetick and a black and tan colored littermates,baying a big black and white tom cat under an old building, they were 10 weeks old and they meant business. But they had been raised running loose on the ranch and they blossomed pretty quick. I am extreemly happy when mine fire and 3 months and I just take for granted they are going to run trash and deal with it as it comes. I will say some strains are a lot easier to break off unwanted game and keep straight on what you want. My current dogs are much quicker starting and much easier to break than some I use to run so I am happy about that.

Mike

A guy by us picked up a dog from this guy, but I haven't heard how it's doing. This fella hunts hard though, and he'll have a full evaluation on it's cat prowess by winters end. If he says it's a dandy, I'll believe him.

With that said, I don't believe much that I read in Full Cry or anywhere else for that matter. I've seen some so called legends not be able to didly squat once they hit the woods. I've also seen pound dogs rip it up, so who knows. These probably aren't the general rules, but the exceptions. In any case believe what you see in the brush.

The last part you wrote about hard-headed dogs made me chuckle a little bit. We've had some dogs that were pretty decent and just a pleasure to be around. Easy keepers and you hardly knew they were around. We've also had some real knotheads, that the ONLY reason you kept them around was they would crank when you put them down. In every other facet they'd piss you off, but the one time you needed a hard driving no quit dog, they'd shine. Too bad you wanted to get rid of them 10 minutes after the hunt. Dogs like this generally get real aquainted with the local vet.

Yes like I said I can only comment on the way he and his dogs were when I was around them and that was a long time ago, but I beleive he has intensley line and inbred, and probably has a pretty good percentage that work. I have a close friend who spent a couple days with him in camp this last winter and he said his dogs are for real and are extreemly imprssive, and this guy knows good dogs.

I really hate to devulge a guys hunting area, but from what I am told there are buffalo running free close to there.....LOL!

Some of the best and truest stories anr hard to believe, especially with all the smoke being blown by some. I tend to keep the hard to believe to myself and very close friends, then i don't need to defend my dogs or my rep. I agree let the dogs speak for themselves, they will not lie very often. I never hunted lion on dry ground, my worthless hounds couldn't handle that, but i have seen some bear chases that went close to 20 miles as the dog travels. NO they still didn't make a tree on the long races
Just my 2 cents

Weldon may have had great dogs once in his life but that time has long past.Weldon's son-in law had a cow lease up by my lion hunting spot a few years back.He had a couple lion kills and Weldon brought up a few dogs and a couple fellows to run them.Weldon has trouble just getting out of the truck now,and can't walk anywhere .I have know clue how he would get in a saddle or how he would stay there?He and the young fellows tried for three days to catch those lions killing Clays cows but never got a good race.Clay gave me a call and I went out and caught two in the next week.Clay was my boss in college when I worked for the ADC dept.I had to ask him why Weldon did not catch those lions and he said he just did not hunt like he did when he was younger and did not have the great dogs he once had.Thats life and its has caught up to him he has to be in his 70's now.But if you look at some full cry's ten years back it has the same pics of Weldon and the same lions in fact I found the same lion in a full cuy from 1989.I do know that 20 miles in the saddle cold trailing a lion would be a long day from before daylight to waaayy after dark. And if a lion can run 20 miles in front of my dogs its time for a new pack of longer legged beagles- most beagles could catch a lion before that!!!!

I have watched this post for sometime now and have to say my 2 cents. I am no youngster to the sport and have seen alot of bad dogs and some really nice cat dogs. been on some long chases but never 20 miles on dry ground in the wind and then say I cought the cat! come on guys it CANT BE DONE. this is a story to suck in young inexperianced people to buy a dog. You have to remember this guy is selling dogs, MOST dog sellers are like car salesmen they will tell you how great THEY THINK THE CAR IS. would you buy a car if they said it burned alot of oil and got crappy gas milage? I am not saying this guy didnt have good dogs his SALE PITCH is just full of DREAMS!

Idcurs,

I appreciate your comments and it is nice to get it straight from somebody who was there. Yes time takes it's toll on all, and there is no escaping it. All I could report on what I saw many, many years ago.

Twist I am sure you are very expereinced and it is very hard to imagine a dog going twenty miles on a bad track and actually catching a lion. Ofcourse you are not running a lion 20 miles you are trailing the scent of a lion that has been left by it's passing. I am sure very few have actually had a predometer on their dogs to see how far they traveled on a track but it might be very interesting.

I was visiting with a friend of mine yesterday that grew up lion hunting in the Gila Wilderness. They were ranchers down there and hunted lions as a means of saving some of the calf crop. I asked him, how many times have you trailed a lion all day, pulled off at dark, and started the track again the next day and went on an jumped and caught the lion. This guy is not a braggart and is a matter of fact time westerner. He said I have no idea but many, many times. And many times it was the third or fourth day when we finally caught up to the lion and jumped and caught him.He said it was not in the cards for us to quit a runable track regardless. We had orders to get that lion come hell or highwater and that's what we did. Sometimes conditions just wouldn't allow us to go on, and sometimes storms would come in and remove the scent, but most of the time we just laid out on the track, and kept going. Most all lion hunters in that country that were worth their salt back then did the same.I asked how far do you think you might have trailed on some of those third and fourth day deal? He said I am not sure but I reckon we crossed a good part of the Gila or the Black Range. He said 50 miles ain't no stretch for a traveling tom lion to make in one day if he thinks he has places to go.

So it's all about perspective and areas, but very few hunt that way these days.

Wiley Carroll said something to me one time I will not forget. I asked him Wiley how could you catch all them lions ? Did you learn some secret thing about them or some special dogs or what was it. Wiley just laughed in the gruff manner and said I guess my dogs were pretty good, but everything I caught it seemed come the hard way. I just kept going hunting and trapping every day. I didn't have anything else to do, so i just went back time after time and sooner or later you get a little lucky. He said I would rather be lucky than good any day, but it didn't happen very often. It always seemed to me if a lion moved 20 miles in a night I would have to trail him at least 19 of those miles. Mike to be a successful at this lion hunting you have to be a little thick in the head...LOL! Boy did the old man ever say a mouthfull..!!

Mike many times when you trail all day then go out the next and trail in the same area,how many times do you start a diffenert lion track or the same lion going a different way?I have done this a lot and all I can tell you is that you will get a track up and running if you stay out there.Now I have hunted with some very good lion hunters and very good dogs that would stand on their heads when needed.But a lot of times when you quit a track for the day and go out the next in the same place you may get a track going a different way or a different lion all together.Thats just lion hunting in the dirt day in day out.Unless you sleep on the track then start right there the next dayyou never know what lion track your dogs are on,and then still if a hot lion track crosses the track the are trailing they should take that track and I have seen this many times before.

I think some of you are missing the story. He is saying dry ground IN THE WIND! I am not saying a dog cant tree something after running 20 miles, might not be the same track turned out on who knows but the dogs treed. If a dog RUNS 20 miles in our country he will more than likely cross another lion or bobcat track and more than likely tree it, might not be the same track it was turned out on who knows. I know there are alot better hounds than mine but to say, trail the same lion 20 miles on dry ground in the WIND!!!!!!!! Has anyone ever farted in the wind, the smell doesnt last to long, am I right!

I have hunted with Weldon and his hounds. I have seen first hand what they will do. Yes, Weldon is an old man. Yes, Weldon is proud of his dogs. I am not writing this to help him sell dogs. Nor do I write this to comment on the man or his dogs of years past. My sole purpose, my only intent is to give credit where credit is due, to his dogs.

I saw his dogs last year cold trail lions in the wind. I followed on foot as his dogs cold trailed on bare wind swept ground. I know we were trailing a lion because every 1/2 mile or so, we came across a little skiff of snow in an area that was sheltered from the wind.........and there was the lion track.....and there were the hound tracks. This went on for miles and miles. We never caught that lion. However, I bet we would have if the track would have gotten better, instead if worse.

I did not see his dogs have any problem catching on better tracks and better conditions.

We never trailed a lion for 20 miles, but I got to see some really impressive dog work. The thing that stood out the most to me was how well his dogs drifted a cold track. They were able to drift out a loose and keep it going. They were able to drift out but still had the sense to come back to where they last had it if thier drift was unsuccesful.

This forum and many others are a great clearinghouse of information. Although, the information most of us are looking for is not found on here.

Are you curious about a certain breed or strain of dogs? Go stick your key in your truck and drive. Leave your dogs at home and see what the other guy has. You may find he is hunting a better dog than you are......or you may find that nothing suits you like the dogs you already have. You never know until you go and see for yourself.

Dan

Are you curious about a certain breed or strain of dogs? Go stick your key in your truck and drive. Leave your dogs at home and see what the other guy has. You may find he is hunting a better dog than you are......or you may find that nothing suits you like the dogs you already have. You never know until you go and see for yourself.

Dan

Well said.
Kyle