BigGameHoundsmen.com

sheimer wrote:Just for the sake of arguement..........

Did teaching a dog to heel ever get them to follow a track (all the way to the tree)?

Did teaching a dog to sit ever make them tree better?

Did teaching a dog to come off the tree ever get them to stick with a mean bear?

Did a handle on a dog ever catch anything?

I want my hounds to handle like my Border Collie and am working to achieve it. I believe they can and should. I was just adding food for thought.

Scott

I did not mean to that extreme but I will give you my oppinion on the your questions.
1 .To heel, not to the tree but away from the tree is very nice, you are able to pack stuff out without leading dogs or having them run wild back to the truck

2. Never had one sit but I sure could see that to be a very nice thing when collaring ,shots, meds.....

3. Calling a dog off the tree has been one of the most important things I have ever taught my dogs. Saved some of my dogs lives when they got into places where I could not have got them or their lives were in danger.

4. Yes a handle did catch a whole lot. I have seen others that have not been able to control their dogs and they take off running wild and never get on the track or go the dirrection the game is.

Just like a horse I think you can have a good animal without the ground work but I think you will have the cream of the crop if you do ground work with them, I think they understand what you want them to do better.
I want my dogs hunting for me not themselves.

twist wrote: but it doesnt make their hunting instincts any greater. later Andy

Sorry Andy we were posting at the same time. I think you are a little confused with My question. I am not asking if it makes the dog better or have a greater hunting instinct. I am asking how important is a handle to you as the handler?

Ok now that is alot better put. As a handler it is a (must) to have a hound that has a handle if you truely want to enjoy the hunt it takes away alot of the work and head ache. later, Andy

Sure makes for a better time on the mountain if your dogs handle. It seems to me, that the top notch dogs I have been around, all seem to take to handling naturally.

Funny story. A friend, and old time houndsman and I were out hunting one day. We had stopped and had the entire box full of dogs out for a potty break. Another local houndsman came around the corner and stopped to visit. We talked for a while and moved on. Many months later, word got back to me, through the "houndsman grapevine" how this particular houndsman was sure enough bad mouthing our dogs. Seems he was telling some other friends of mine how he wouldn't own a one of those worthless hounds we had out that day. He said all of them dogs was out of the box and none of them would even go hunting. All they did was mill around and smell tires LOL.

To each his own I guess, but I always figured just because my dogs feet are on the ground, doesn't mean they can just run off.

Guys- Thanks for the civil responses. Those are the answers I was looking for. When I first got into the hounds, I was left with the impression that you couldn't even have the dogs around the house or as "pets". If you did, they would never leave you and wouldn't hunt worth a sh!t. How wrong those guys were! Mine hunt better as my handle on them improves. I'll be the first to admit that my dogs have a long way to go but we are on our way.

Take last year for example, when I first started walking for tracks, both dogs were on a leash and it was a struggle at that. As the season progressed, the leashes became easy to handle, then they came off. It was so much easier and fun once the dogs could range out and still feel under control. I know it's a small step, but the journey of many miles begins with the first step.


Thanks again,

Scott

Far as handling is concerned in weather or not it helps put game in a tree, I am a firm believer that discipline creates a smarter, thinking, reasoning dog, and is part of being a complete finished dog. I had a guy once tell me that if I were in the market for a finished dog and its handler went for a leash, to turn around and go home. I had the wild dogs that couldn't be let out of the box or they would top the next ridge in 10 seconds. Thats all I knew for awhile and all the influences around me expected from their dogs. I did some traveling and seeking and learned it's a whole bigger world than what i had been introduced to.
To the guy that is having trouble getting his dogs to come out of the box on command and wait their turn, if they come to their name when called, a hotshot is the answer to your problem. they won't rush the door after about two or three times of getting lit up at the threshold, then call em out and switch up the order occasionally to make sure they are on top of it, that works pretty well for me, hope it helps. i always want my dogs thinking.

Probably three of the greatest hound handlers I have known of also leave a great impression on the big game hound world.

1. Mr. Dan Lay(Layser Kennels(Canada)/

2. Mr. Warner Glenn Douglas Arizona

3. Mr. Charles(Chuck) Griffon Roosevelt, Arizona


I would say each of these men own a share in the big game hall of fame. They choose their dogs for ability. They breed them tight along those lines. They command and recieve respect and service from their dogs.

What more can you really ask for.So it is a bit like watching Tiger Woods play golf. So Tiger I don't really think you should have chosen that club. Oh for sure you won the Open but I think I would have chosen a 7 Iron. LOL! Oh thanks for the advice and your name was?

We started a bear awhile back off a cold rig which trailed out onto a ridge with a road through it. When we caught up with the dogs, they had done a lose on the road and were out striking for the track. One of those hounds found the track backwards and fired hard which brought the rest of them running, and they all blew out down that track backwards.

Well, I was right there and cut that boar going the other way and called them all back with only a few words. They must have been over a hundred yards and going hard backwards. Had I not stumbled along those hounds might well have turned the track around in a few hundred yards, and maybe not. Regardless of the outcome that would have befell them, they all came running back and hit the track right on my command and caught the bear. I guess the point is had I not been able to call those hounds off a track or tree, they'd been gone and on their own running that boar back to it's mother!

I've always worried about my hounds stretching a yard cat when loading or getting out, but know now-days that I could call them back in about any situation. If a guy hasn't taught his hounds to handle in about every situation then he's not everything out of those dogs he could in my opinion..........

ike

Mike Leonard wrote:Probably three of the greatest hound handlers I have known of also leave a great impression on the big game hound world.

1. Mr. Dan Lay(Layser Kennels(Canada)/

2. Mr. Warner Glenn Douglas Arizona

3. Mr. Charles(Chuck) Griffon Roosevelt, Arizona


I would say each of these men own a share in the big game hall of fame. They choose their dogs for ability. They breed them tight along those lines. They command and recieve respect and service from their dogs.

What more can you really ask for.So it is a bit like watching Tiger Woods play golf. So Tiger I don't really think you should have chosen that club. Oh for sure you won the Open but I think I would have chosen a 7 Iron. LOL! Oh thanks for the advice and your name was?

??????

Well I hope its important cause handle is all I got! Now if I can just get them to tree me something and stay off the deer.

I usually don't contribute alot to these Forums for a couple of reasons.
First reason is that most of the time what I believe is at some point put on here by someone else and as such I would just feel like an echo I suppose.
The main reason though is that the "Tradition" of hound hunting is a relatively new thing in these parts,maybe 20-30 years or so.Prior to that houndsmen where pretty few and far between unlike down in the US where you people have been doing this for generations.That being said alot of the ideas that you guys take for granted are pretty new to most of us in this area.
The idea of having a"Handle" on your dogs is a very new idea to most of the fellas I know.Not to say that it is not practiced here but certainly is not widely accepted as being reasonable or for that matter even necessary.
I do not agree with this belief and do totally support the idea that a handle is as important as all of the other qualities we look for in our dogs,the difference here is that it does not have to be bred into them we can add it to them.What a great opportunity for all of us to really make a difference in a dog,in our enjoyment of the dog,the sport and the way that we can influence the perception of others to our sport.