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Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:39 am
by YSHBHounds
KLS wrote:the Department of Fish and Game will lose over $200,000 annually in tag revenue, and tens of thousands of dollars more in general hunting license revenue.
That doesn't seem like very much money
the DFG will just raise hunting licence fees,
it's got to be more money than that?
We aready got 3 votes aganist us, what about the other 4?
Your right, $200,000 doesn't seem like a lot comparing it to the $1.2 Million bear tags alone brought in for the state. But just think of the other side of that statement. 5,000 hunters who won't be buying fuel everyday while out hunting, food, lodging, meat lockers to process meat, Taxidermy.. the list is almost endless. With those alone, on average cost, your talking over $1 Million there. My husband and I alone spent over $5000 JUST in everyday essentials. Not to mention the $8000 we just spent on our "super Toyota" that we use not just for hunting, but as my husbands everyday commuter. I know we aren't the only one who has spent that much on a vehicle this year just getting it ready for next season. Theres a lot more involved than just DFG. In your letter, like he said.. add that in there. They NEED to know how much they are losing by passing this bill.
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:01 am
by YSHBHounds
Forgot to put my $.02 worth for the DFG raising tags..
Your also right there, they can raise tags prices, but I also bet they will lose more revenue by doing so. The economy already sucks in this state and raising the tags to the $60 they would need to raise it to and get that $200k back will hurt them in the end. As it sits now we already whine about the $45 tags on top of our license fees. You don't think peope are going to spend another $25 on top of that? I think you will see another drop in numbers, maybe not 5000.. but hell even 500 is still another $23000!
Also remember this is $200k that department is NOT going to have to spend on warden salaries, research, state Houndsmen, etc. They will ultimately need to do more than just raise tag prices $25 to get back all that money plus the added expense from the loss of hunters.
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:37 am
by Redwood Coonhounds
The $200k figure does seem low, and as was mentioned at the NCCHA meeting tonight, that number is actually over $500k on the conservative side. They probably get close to the $200k mark from OUT OF STATE hunters alone! They will get the facts to the Appropriations Committee.
Not to mention the amount of money we spend on everything to do with our hounds. Feed, fuel, equipment, routine care, and the list goes on. My other half and I work full time jobs, do not guide, or even travel too far to hunt, and don't have half as many dogs as MOST do, and we spent just under $20,000 last year on hound/hunting related costs! That does not count emergency VET BILLS! Just routine crap like, food, medications, heartworm, wormer, vaccines, dental care, routine health testing, ect. I didn't figure in the costs to fix up the hunting truck about 5 times last bear season, or how much more work that has to be done to it to pass smog this year, right before season starts... I can't imagine the amount of money some of the more "well to do" or Guides who do this for a living put into this States Economy.

Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:02 am
by BOSS HOG
All the revenue received from DFG goes into the states general fund, every year the DFG gets the same amount of funding regardless of any loss of tag or license sales from previous years.
I also spent somewhere between 18k and 20k last year on hound hunting, and im sure if you multiply that times the number of houndsmen in the state it would be in the neighborhood 50 mil or more. This would be a good point to make if everyone would put that money in a savings account and not spend it, but we all know if were not hound hunting we will find something else to spend that money on one way or another.
Although these are both good arguments to john q taxpayer , the appropriations committee could care less.
I really hope whoever is going to represent us at that meeting has something better that this.
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:03 pm
by KLS
Lord knows we all know what it costs to hunt but can we use those figures? gas,food,vet, ,ect.. or is it strickly dollars and cents that effect the DFG?
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:08 pm
by FFHankey
The meeting Monday May 7th is open to the public.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:40 pm
by YSHBHounds
KLS wrote:Lord knows we all know what it costs to hunt but can we use those figures? gas,food,vet, ,ect.. or is it strickly dollars and cents that effect the DFG?
I used the prefab letter but added my own words here and there and added my own paragraph touching base on how much my Husband and I spent last year and what we already spent this year BEFORE bear season. Adding your own costs is encouraged.
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:39 am
by Dale T
This is well beyound F&G, These are the rules that we are playing under today for the Appropriations Committee
CALIFORNIA SENATE RULES:
28.8. Any bill referred to the Committee on Appropriations pursuant
to Joint Rule 10.5 that does not appropriate money may not be set for hearing
and shall, along with any nonsubstantive amendments, promptly be reported to
the Senate with the recommendation it be placed on second reading if the chair
of the committee determines that (a) any additional state costs are not
significant and do not and will not require the appropriation of additional
state funds, and (b) the bill will cause no significant reduction in revenues.
JOINT RULES ( JR10.5 )
Rereferral to Fiscal and Rules Committees
10.5. A bill shall be rereferred to the fiscal committee of each
house when it would do any of the following:
(1) Appropriate money.
(2) Result in substantial expenditure of state money by: (a)
imposing new responsibilities on the state, (b) imposing new or additional
duties on a state agency, or (c) liberalizing any state program, function, or
responsibility.
(3) Result in a substantial loss of revenue to the state.
(4) Result in substantial reduction of expenditures of state money
by reducing, transferring, or eliminating any existing responsibilities of any
state agency, program, or function.
Concurrent and joint resolutions shall be rereferred to the fiscal
committee of each house when they contemplate any action that would involve any
of the following:
(1) Any substantial expenditure of state money.
(2) Any substantial loss of revenue to the state.
The above requirements do not apply to bills or concurrent
resolutions that contemplate the expenditure or allocation of operating funds.
A bill that assigns a study to the Joint Legislative Budget
Committee or to the Legislative Analyst shall be rereferred to the respective
rules committees. Before the committee may act upon the bill, it shall obtain
from the Joint Legislative Budget Committee an estimate of the amount required
to be expended to make the study.
This rule may be suspended in either house as to any particular bill
by approval of the Committee on Rules of the house and two-thirds vote of the
membership of the house.re working on now is the Approptiations Committee
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:13 pm
by Dale T
Peter Meyer wrote:Research on Hound Hunting Commissioned by The Humane Society of the United States Confirms Harmful Consequences for Many Wildlife Species
Scientific Analysis Supports S.B. 1221, Legislation to Prohibit Bear and Bobcat Hound Hunting
New scientific findings by a leading conservation biologist support a ban on hound hunting of black bears and bobcats. Rick Hopkins, principal and senior conservation biologist for one of California’s foremost ecological consulting firms, shared his findings in a letter to Sen. Ted Lieu, D- Torrance, who recently introduced Senate Bill 1221 to prohibit the practice in California. The Senate Natural Resources Committee will hear testimony and vote on S.B. 1221 next week.
“In all known studies the presence of dogs produced adverse responses in wildlife,” Hopkins wrote in his analysis, which was commissioned by The Humane Society of the United States. “Dogs can have rather pronounced effect on numerous species, including killing of young black bears, bobcats and other species including cougar kittens. Off-leash and off-trail hounds are unpredictable and cause stress and flushing behavior in many wildlife species, including deer, birds, and small mammals.”
Hopkins’ analysis found a number of serious concerns related to bear and bobcat hound hunting, including:
The use of roaming dogs result in adverse impacts to target and non-target animals such as bear cubs or bobcat kittens, or other wildlife, particularly protected and sensitive wildlife species.
Black bear and bobcat hunting programs in California are recreational and do not provide effective means to reduce conflicts between predators and human interests.
“Dr. Hopkins’ scientific analysis is consistent with complaints by ranchers, private property owners, and animal sheltering agencies in California’s bear-hunting counties of decades of hounding-related problems,” said Jennifer Fearing, California senior state director for The HSUS. “It’s time for California to join the states that do not permit the reckless and inhumane practice of hounding.”
Facts:
Hounding is an inhumane and unsporting practice where trophy hunters use packs of radio-collared dogs to chase down bears and bobcats before the hunter shoots the terrified animal off a tree branch. Dogs can be struck by vehicles, die from dehydration or as a result of violent confrontations with wildlife, and many are abandoned, which puts a strain on local animal shelters.
Bears are very poor distance runners and may tire and be overtaken by the dog pack. In bobcat hounding, the bobcat may stop and attempt to confront the dog pack leading to possible injury and death from the conflict for both the dogs and bobcat.
Fourteen states—including Montana, Colorado, Washington, Pennsylvania and Oregon—allow bear hunting but prohibit hounding. Montana’s wildlife management officials consider prohibiting hounding a feature of the state’s “fair chase” principles.
S.B. 1221 is co-authored by Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg, D-Sacramento, Sens. Mark Leno, D-San Francisco and Leland Yee, D-South San Francisco and Assemblymembers Toni Atkins, D-San Diego, Bob Blumenfield, D-Van Nuys, Mike Eng, D-Monterey Park, Paul Fong, D-Cupertino, Anthony Portantino, D-La Canada-Flintridge, Jose Solorio, D-Anaheim and Das Williams, D-Santa Barbara.
Thousands of Californians including wildlife advocates, ranchers, hunters and landowners have written or called in support of S.B. 1221, as have dozens of animal protection, wildlife rehabilitation and animal sheltering organizations including The HSUS, Sierra Club California, ASPCA, State Humane Association of California, the Bear League, and Wildcare. Hundreds of supporters and opponents are expected to attend the Senate Natural Resources Committee hearing on Tuesday, April 24, at 9 a.m. in Room 112 of the Capitol in Sacramento.
Can you believe this? -Pete
commissioned by The Humane Society of the United States
Are we really suprised with these results, the HSUS are the first to dimiss the findings of the Dept. of Fish and Game when they have no motive but to manage the Fish and Game
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:43 pm
by desertdog
All stinkin' Demacrats....Every one of em'..
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:55 pm
by Liz ODell
Has anyone been following these Sac. Bee articles? While there is some misinformation and the animal rights sway is hard to stomach there is good information on what APHIS alone has already been spending killing animals in the state and could be useful to point out that it will increase if SB1221 is passed (and the animals per law will be destroyed or left to rot).
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/04/28/445067 ... qus_thread
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:38 pm
by CRA
Liz ODell wrote:Has anyone been following these Sac. Bee articles? While there is some misinformation and the animal rights sway is hard to stomach there is good information on what APHIS alone has already been spending killing animals in the state and could be useful to point out that it will increase if SB1221 is passed (and the animals per law will be destroyed or left to rot).
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/04/28/445067 ... qus_thread
Mrs. Odell,
The article was mentioned in the CHC meeting. I'm not sure why the Sacramento Bee spent all that time and effort into that report, but you are right, it did show some huge numbers that may raise some eye brows in the appropriations committee.
California now has willing and most importantly "paying" hunters that will pay their own expenses and spend thousands of their own hard earned dollars to do the work for APHIS, Wildlife Services, and USDA. Having hound hunting not only generates millions of dollars for the State of California but also saves the State of California millions. Hunting seasons also generates millions of dollars to the more rural area economies.
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:52 pm
by FFHankey
This is information that i received from USDA Wildlife Services today.
Per your request, here are the data on take for Black Bears in Caliifornia for the Fiscal Years 2009, 2010, and 2011.
Fiscal Year Killed or Euthanized, Freed-Relocated, Dispersed
TOTAL 2009 > 130, 9, 0
TOTAL 2010 > 169, 7, 4
TOTAL 2011 > 138, 8, 3
TOTAL ALL 3 FYs 437, 24, 7
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:22 am
by Dale T
The shit just keeps coming:
Appropriations Committee is planning to bypass suspense and pass SB1221 out of committee to the Senate floor. This is clearly a railroad job designed to minimize our participation in the process. Therefore, we need to ask everyone to come to the Capitol as on April 24th. We know this is a done deal. There may be less of an opportunity to state our opposition, but we need to keep up the heat anyway. We will use this day to walk around to Senate offices and express our opposition.
So people should:
1.) Arrive at 8:30 and assemble at the hearing room 4203.
2.) The hearing is scheduled for 11:00am.
3.) We will visit Senate offices after the hearing.
4.) Plan to spend all day at the Capitol.
5.) The Senate vote could come as early as May 14th !
Got to love it!
Re: BILL INTRODUCED TO BAN PURSUIT OF BEAR AND BOBCAT IN CA
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:02 am
by CRA
Dale T wrote:The shit just keeps coming:
Appropriations Committee is planning to bypass suspense and pass SB1221 out of committee to the Senate floor. This is clearly a railroad job designed to minimize our participation in the process. Therefore, we need to ask everyone to come to the Capitol as on April 24th. We know this is a done deal. There may be less of an opportunity to state our opposition, but we need to keep up the heat anyway. We will use this day to walk around to Senate offices and express our opposition.
So people should:
1.) Arrive at 8:30 and assemble at the hearing room 4203.
2.) The hearing is scheduled for 11:00am.
3.) We will visit Senate offices after the hearing.
4.) Plan to spend all day at the Capitol.
5.) The Senate vote could come as early as May 14th !
Got to love it!
California Hound Hunter's,
I hope everyone pays close attention to what Dale posted because we as hound hunters are being railroaded. I know CHC posted that it wasn't necessary to have everyone make an appearance to the appropriations committee, but that was before we knew that they wanted to really play dirty hardball.
Now get this, the figure they (when I say they I mean the supporting party) came up with that the State of California will lose if the bill passes in revenue is 129,000.00. That's right 129 thousands dollars state wide. What a joke! Hell the out of staters spend more than that!