BigGameHoundsmen.com

HoundDawg,
Your analogy of "deer hunters with dogs" is very good and eye opening. I don't think we in OR have that problem, maybe in the past when lions were legally huntable with dogs. I wasn't aware that's what Bplott was referring to. That would be a very hard problem to deal with, especially like you said, when money and pride are thrown into the batch.
So basically Utah houndsmen have two battles, one with management agendas and one with "another special interest group". I'd bet Ray Charles could see that those two are holding hands.

Tom.

So Bplott, I "almost" owe you an apology for my post earlier, going off on you with regards to what you said about "newbees". Well......almost

Maybe you guys should start throwing out names and start putting some public shame on those guys that are killing every lion they tree. Quit being so nice. I know what you mean about guys singing the song about not shooting females but when they are out, game on. I could name a few guys on here that you all think are great houndsmen and i know for a fact they kill damn near everything they catch ( have seen it with my own eyes) but post on here about not killing females. I hunt with a few guys here and we have only killed 2 females in the last 3 years and one the dude shot after we told him not to and shit hit the fan. I think you have more influence than you think and just try to lead by example. I think i sound better telling someone about the 9 females i let go last year than telling them about the toms we killed. The sad fact is that it will probably never change unless it is put into law.

I agree with azdogman I have never killed a lion. But have been part of a few harvests all toms except for one. And she was old. We need to figure this out and get it fixed.

In my state we have quotas for females or total cougars killed. In one area there would be something like 7 females or 14 total cougars available for harvest. Once the females are killed off, the unit becomes pursuit only. So if Hound Hunters don't shoot females, 14 guys can get a cat. If they kill off the females then only 7 selfish bastards get cats. It doesn't keep people from killing females.

This has been going on for 6 years, and I think it works fairly well. We still have units that close with a lot of toms left to harvest, but for the most part there is only a couple left. Overall I believe the hounds men in our state are doing a good job. There is one unit that keeps closing real fast because of female harvest. That is coincidentally the unit with the most "guides" in it.

way to go george tell it like it is!!!!!!!!!

well, utah just released the preliminary lion numbers. maybe I'm misread, but it looks like they way upped the tags state wide? just when you thought it couldn't get worse!

where did you see the report i couldnt find it on there web site

Yes they up the tags by 20 something due to ranchers at the southern rac meeting complaining about there being no deer and they are suposably have greater livestock loss on southern units.... the SFW was also at every meeting and the wild life board meeting complaining about there being to many lions and not enuf deer.

Hopfully the wolves get here by the time they exterminate the lions so sfw has something to blame for still not having deer. Say goodbye to lion hunting as we know it down here! roll your sleeves up boys it's gona get ugly.

Houndem thats why we neeed to get the word out to the kitten/female killen dueche bags to knock it off!!!! Toms only!!!! People can read all the scientific B.S and "college studies" they want but you can not have harvest of around 40% female (adult/sub-adult) and have a health population of any animal!!!

Just a Question? say everyone Stops killing females then will the dwr just increase quotas to compensate? Or say what if the areas go unfilled or not filled up to the dwr's quota then will the state/government just step in and wackem either way? I know they did when I had a limited entry tag and I was being selective, then a call came in about a lion less than 3 miles from where I was hunting regularly getting a sheep so dead it became. Thanks Dwr for getting hold of those guys that drew tags in that area...

The DWR works off mathmatic stats...BUT they are not counting sub adult females in there numbers.....I know because i have sat thro all there meetings agrueing with them . trying to count every lion in there data because the average age of lions killed in the state is around 2yrs old! (what kinda trophy is that?) A 2yr old lion isnt very far from its mom if she is still alive.To many people in this state have the attitude that if there dogs actually catch some sort of big game it dies no matter what it is!! The old school ways of its for sure a TOM or a BOAR have gone down the DRAIN!!! We need that back!!! What i see is guys that get dogs for a couple years, kill everything they catch then when the hunting gets tough or the place they hunt gets hunted out, they sell or give there dogs away to someone else that whats to kill a cat or bear...Hopefully with the new guides and outfitters laws passed here in the state part off the problem with certain of them will go away!!! If not that will be a discusion on here!!!!