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I think we need to be clear on one thing here, since it's turned into a bit of a DWR bashing session. The DWR and SFW are the #2 and #3 enemies to lions in Utah. The biggest enemy lions have in this state is us! The guys with dogs!

Sure those groups are incompetent but all they are doing is handing us enough rope to hang ourselves. We are doing the rest ourselves. So when the dust settles, there will only be one place to point the blame and it rests squarely on us.

My buddy watched a local outfitter here whack another kitten yesterday, one of many for him and all the others. His take on the deal, "Hey, the spots are gone, it's legal." Boom.

Like a guy used to tell me, "Get a foot of fresh snow on the ground and everybody is an outfitter." It's true. Everybody around here is an outfitter now, guys who have sat in those meetings and banquets, guys who I have personally heard cry the blues about lion numbers and now these ass clowns are running the roads every day all winter whacking and stacking any kitten they can catch. And if they don't have a client of their own, they are running for some outfitter that does.

A guy I know was at the DWR and watched one of them a few weeks ago check in a couple of kittens, he said they were no bigger than a good sized black and tan. Proud as proud, hey killing a lion is a heroic deed. And when you talk to them they will always talk the talk about how something needs to be done, and the DWR needs to do this or that, but they are part of the problem, not the solution.

When you turn your back, they will be up the canyon the next morning running roads because their outfitter buddy has a hunter in town and a dinky ass juvenile is going to die. Make no mistake about it, the DWR or the SFW is not our primary enemy. We are the real culprits.

And it's time to put the blame where it really lies, on ourselves. Because it's easy to talk the talk, but nobody is willing to back it up with anything but talk. And when the snow flies, they'll be out guiding for someone with a tag in their pocket or they'll have a quota tag in their own pocket, "just in case I caught a real big one."

Because it's true, when the snow flies everybody is an outfitter. And that isn't the DWR's fault. Ultimately it falls on us and we will hang ourselves. All they will do is hand us enough rope.

And when there is nothing left, the guys doing the killing now will be whining the loudest, that much is guaranteed. And it will be everybody else's fault but theirs.

But no mistake about it, the lion has no bigger enemy on this planet than the hound guy!!

HD,

I agree 150% and the same thing goes for NM, Co, and many other states. when the snow flies everybody seems to turn into a Outfitter or running for one, and it's repeating itself all over lion country.


Great post Dawg I hope every hound person takes it to heart....

Nicely said dawg, supposed houndsmen here in utah can really pat there self on the back when the average age of lions harvested in the state is 1yr old this year!!! I bet these kitten and female killers all have does and fawns mounted in there house instead of 30" bucks, after all they take up less room!!

Im new to hound hunting, and its pretty upsetting to me that the thing I really enjoy doing is going to be gone soon because of the guys who think they have to shoot everything in sight. Its the same with deer hunting, go to one of those check stations and just look at all the forkies that come through. My father in law talks about how good the lion hunting used to be, he hunted a long time in morgan and could go out and find fresh lion tracks all over the county and now your lucky to hear of one in the entire county. there was a young female in hardscrabble that got killed recently, its unbelievable what people will do... Whats the divisions reason for not making the tags Tom only?

Anyone that has been hunting awhile around here is probably partly guilty, because I sure as hell know that some lions have died over my dogs. And my buddies have done some killing too. Used to be that there were enough lions around, didn't really seem to matter. You killed one and after awhile another one would filter in. So I don't exclude myself here, I've seen a couple fall I wish I could take back.

But when things really started going downhill, some of us realized the days of killing lions like that needed to stop. What's disappointing to me is that some of these guys still whacking and stacking females and kittens around here aren't newbies, they are guys who have been hunting a long time, some of them second generation hound guys.

They know how good it used to be, they see how pathetic it is now, and they STILL won't stop killing. That's what bugs me, and these ass clowns will cry and moan the loudest. A year ago or so I sat in my truck and listened to a guy bitch and moan for 45 minutes about how bleak the lion situation was. He was crying a river. His buddy was up running some canyons.

He finally quit bitching about the lion situation when his buddy called on the radio and said he had a track. I found out the next day this guy went up there and whacked a female. WTF? He sat there complaining for 45 minutes and then went and hammered a female.

So we have all been there and done that, and I've watched some die myself. But what I can't figure is how some of these veteran hunters are still hammering them and justifying it.

Just more proof that we will not win this battle. They will keep handing us the rope, we will hang ourselves and then wonder what the hell happened.

And when there is one dinky ass female lion left on the entire Wasatch, down to the last lion in Diamond Fork, I can name about 4 or 5 guys around here, and some of them guys who have been in the game for a long time, and they will be up there trying to kill her for a tank of fuel, a pallet of dog food or $500 bucks.

Just a bummer to watch it all circle the drain and nothing you can do to stop it. But that old guy was right, get a foot of fresh snow and everybody is an outfitter!!

Wel. 3 days into the split season units openin up and they allready overshot the beaver by 3 But i guess all the guys like shootin on the beaver

Perhaps when they overkill these units this year they could cut back the number of LE / HO permits for next year. Seems fair to me. Highly unlikely but could it be possible?

My buddy just called me and he said tonight there was some radio program on KFAN 1320 here in Utah about mountain lions and deer.

The host is this guy who used to go by "Fishon" over on the Monster Muleys site and he knows as much about deer and lions as my Mother in laws pink French Poodle. He had an Outfitter from Southern Utah on there and some other guy called in...

He said he heard more bullshit in 30 minutes of that radio program with those three than you could hear in three days with a group of 10 fishermen sitting around.... He said there was more misinformation on that show than you could get from Obama/Pelosi/Clinton and Reid in a week, during an election year.

At first he was pissed, then he said it got so bad it just became comical. I'd try to repeat some of the stuff he told me, but I was laughing too hard listening to him tell me this stuff that now I can't remember much of it.

But I'll just summarize the gist of their radio program... The DWR Director deserves a Presidential Medal of Honor for raising the lion quotas because we are in grave danger from these vicious man and deer killing machines. They're everywhere... PLEASE, do not go out and get your mail without a hound outfitter to accompany you. Your life is in great danger if you go outside in Utah, these vicious felines have taken over, we are overrun and this is a state of emergency. Do not let your children go outside, they will be stalked, killed and eaten... they have eliminated the deer, and now the humans are next! There is no place you are safe. You can lock your doors, hide in your closets, but these lions will find you and you will be terminated.

The only hope is we all need to get a quota tag immediately, and contact your nearest outfitter. Only they can save us, with the DWR's help, God willing we can save the human race from the invasion of the blood thirsty felic concolor, also known as the Puma, Mountain Lion, Cougar, Devil Cat, Long Tail and sometimes even the rolling ball of fighting fury.

You have been warned, YOU ARE NOT SAFE!! Ignore this and you will be sorry! The lions are here, they are everywhere and they will not stop until the last mule deer, and human being is dead, half eaten and buried under a pile of twigs!

They are in our hills, our yards, our driveways, our playgrounds, our shopping centers, our lakes and recreation areas... Do you hear me? Are you listening? MY GOD, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES, WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

So if you missed the radio program like me, you've been updated on what they had to say. Oh ya, the bad economy... that's also the Lions fault. Congress will be addressing it, with the help of the radio program guys who have it all figured out.

And for you Utah boys, turns out it wasn't Brian David Mitchell that drug Elizabeth Smart from her room and kidnapped her, it was actually a bitch lion with two kittens. Luckily all three of them were harvested on quota tags, and DNA evidence should set it all straight.

And the DWR is not only in line for a Presidential award but also an Oscar and the Nobel Peace prize for saving mankind from the invasion of Utah lions. Don't say you weren't informed.

Why can't we put the DWR and SFW and these self proclaimed experts on to the Cancer cause? They'd have it cured in a week wouldn't they?

Wasting our time with these Doctors and Scientists... we got people right here in our midst that have all the answers, let's get 'em rolling on cancer!!

What's sad, is that I think Tony Abbot (fishon) really knows better.....he just chooses to ignore it. He was spouting off on MonsterMulies last fall about how one lion kills 52 deer per year so if we kill one or two more lions per unit we can easily make up for the 15,000 reduction in deer tags. I posted back that that was horseshit, because the only way his math would work out is if every deer NOT killed by a lion lives to deer season. So no mortality from malnutrition and disease, no road kill, no coyote predation, nothing. I asked him just how likely was that??? I explained that's why the DWR hires biologists to manage the deer herds and not mathematicians.

I believe deep down Tony knows the flaws in his logic but for some reason fails acknowledge it.....nobody is that stupid are they?? For someone to knowingly disseminate false information and false hope to the masses of ignorant deer hunters for me becomes an ethical issue. My own moral issues become miniscule compared to that of his.........and that's saying a bunch!!

well i just looked at the harvest list again to see what todays update on it was. The beaver unit is now overshot by 5 lion and panguitch lake by 1 to many. It must have been a rat race on beaver the last few days. musta been more hounds down there then at the autum oaks coonhunt.

TUCO wrote:well i just looked at the harvest list again to see what todays update on it was. The beaver unit is now overshot by 5 lion and panguitch lake by 1 to many. It must have been a rat race on beaver the last few days. musta been more hounds down there then at the autum oaks coonhunt.

I was just over on utahwildlife.net and the deer hunters over there were using these recent harvest numbers as evidence that Utah's lion population is "out of control!!"

Yep, like Dawg said, the DWR may have provided the rope, but are the ones hanging ourselves.

What makes me laugh is that Tony Abbott was a big shot in the SFW and when they got sick of him he ended up over at the Mule Deer Foundation...

Near as I can tell on his watch they have taken the Mule Deer hunting in Utah to all time lows and now any quality lion hunting is now gone as well, so you can basically go whack a juvenile lion, unless you are the one to find the needle in a haystack.

Not sure which is more far fetched now in Utah... to kill a big tom lion, or a 30" mule deer. And this has basically happened since Tony got involved in those two groups.

So what do you do with a guy who has been personally and heavily involved in the dramatic decline of two species and two formerly quality hunts? Hey, give him a radio show so he can share all of his vast knowledge with everyone else.

And then when he talks about lions, he brings on an outfitter (talk about asking a Barber if you need a haircut) and of course there is no open phone line so no one can call in and comment or respond.

My buddy said he listened as long as he could stand it and on that one radio show he heard more bullshit than you could hear in the corner booth at a cafe in Roosevelt, Utah.

And that is saying something!!

Now that is funny

I just wana personaly thank all the idiots that helped over harvest on the beaver unit +5 what an accomplishment.....!!!! I honestly don't know why I sit and argue with the Dwr to try and protect the lively hood of our sport when we have a bunch of retards out there killing everything that climbs a treee!!
Awesome guys go out kill a 80lb lion then hit 3 deer on the way home with your truck.....nice way to help the DWR......keep up the good work!!
Make us proud!!

Why have someone to slap the horse on the ass se we can hang when we can just spur like hell and do the job ourselves. Great job guys theres nothin like pissein on the cause that others work so hard to preserve. Jackasses.