BigGameHoundsmen.com

Andy,

I haven't had but one that was that quick that I knew of. I had some that would settle on the situation pretty quick and were seldom wrong. Old Big John was uncanny in that ability, and even from a rather young age seemed to be able to even detect when the quarry was going to take refuge in a tree. Always a tremndous wiinding dog we witnessed numerous times him driving a track with hise usual Owk! OwK! Owk Owk! bark and switch over to Oh! Oh! Oh! OhOh! as he came into a tree and he was not a wild tree dog or anything like that just deadly terminal and the hundreds of trees he was at he varied only slightly. Barking eyes on the game and occasionaly grabbing a branch or a schrub to shred it in anticipation of getting some hair in his teeth. He was pretty well the same ability on all species I saw him on be it bear, lion, bobcat or coon.

I still have his blood and saw one of his great grandsons exibit similar trends this week on lions. Not sure what it is but I have to say I like it.

Mike, I haven’t had that among what I have hunted. All I know is there’s nothing better than hearing that cold track go from a slow methodical track to a more urgent voice then a hard fast race to complete silence then a locate from one single dog to the roar of chopping voices. To be there through every step is educational to say the least.

Al, I am glad to hear you have a hunting partner and to see your passion to hunt and love for these hounds. I wish everyone with hounds had your passion. Hound hunters come and go but houndsmen are forever.

sourdough

What a great read. Dogs politely discussed by seasoned houndsmen. It just dosent get any better than this. Would like to hear from the Clay's . Thankyou gentlemen. John Warner

Nolte, settle down a little. In no way was I calling you out and I don't know how you took that from my post. You clearly believe that a coon dog can't consistently tree bobcats and I know different. Maybe you're right and I just have it easy out here. If you ever want to open your mind a little come on out. You're right that only residents can hunt bobcat but you could sure come spectate and you can run lions here so it wouldn't be a wasted trip. Where do you live that it is so tough that so few dogs can catch cats consistantly? If conditions are so different from here to there do you think your good dogs would excell up here? Here's a question for everyone, how many are running dogs that came from coon hounds down the line? I see Al mentioned a couple big name coon dogs in some of his dogs blood. How about the Nance dogs? Pretty sure Lester Nance owned coon dogs and ran some cats. In competition hunts usually a drifting type track dog that runs to catch and locates well on scent only and stays treed with the game is the dog that wins the hunt. In my experience that's how a good bobcat dog hunts too. I really think one of the biggest factors that makes top bobcat dogs is brains. Ever notice how those top hounds seem to always be in the right place at the right time and make things happen when other dogs can't? Pretty sure that luck doesn't have much to do with it.

Hi Kevin I don/t believe any dog knows if they are registered or grade. Only difference registered lineage on paper, grade in some ole country boy/s mind. A few years ago a friend and I was enjoying a bob race. He ask how old did you say your Puller pup is? Eight months old I replied. He said man I have never seen a 8 month old registered pup do that good, a grade pup yes, But never a registered one. No doubt in my mind this friend knows more about bobcat hunting than me, infact meeting him helped me be more observent of numerous things when hunting hounds. I read often that the registered walker hounds have been weakened by breeding hot nosed tree happy hounds, to suit the competion hunts. Maybe that is where registered hounds get that knock aganist them. Might shock you to learn, if my health was more stable, I would have tried to purchase a pup from you last year. Enjoy trying different lines of dogs. Another friend whom I consider most knowlegable, once told me you sure like to trash. When he found out I was hunting a registered walker I had ordered from Tennessee. Al

once you have seen an accurate layup dog as far as treedogs go it gives you a good measuring stick on what a treedog is capable of . i hear of dogs that cant or wont locate at the end of a track for various reasons ive had dogs like that as well i just always look for a layup dog when it comes to future treedogs .

Al, I agree. Dogs are just dogs, papered or not. One of the best bobcat dogs I've ever been in the woods with was half bluetick and half walker. I would have fed him and been happy to do it. My dogs aren't wonder dogs they're just dogs but we make a good team and catch a high percentage of what we set out to catch. Today my year old pup was too independant. He got turned out last on a lion track in slushy snow and there wasn't much scent. His mom and dad worked it out and got it treed and he went looking for a track he could run. I don't mind a dog with a mind of his own and once he figures everything out he'll be a nice dog. He didn't do anything wrong he just won't go to another dog because they're barking. I don't want pack dogs so he'll suit me just fine. It takes a lot to shock me so if you would have tried one of my pups I wouldn't be shocked at all. It might have worked for you and it might not. Like I said they're all just dogs. Al you mention about reading that the walkers are tree happy. Some are just like in all breeds there are good and bad. You can't win a competition hunt without treeing coons though. Accuracy is the name of the game. If you get in a gunfight you can draw faster than anyone but if you don't aim it doesn't matter, same with dogs. Accuracy is everything. A top hound is a top hound papers or not. Some guys say it's tougher here or there but a top hound will rise to the top regardless of where it lives. kordog, a lay up dog is a thing of beauty. It's amazing to watch a dog fall treed and have a coon when the rest have no clue there is a coon in the woods. Those are the true locators.

Kevin,

Many knowledgeable fellows were discussing a pretty darn interesting topic in this thread. Your first post came in with a chip on your shoulder about how your coon dogs can't read and can get it done. Great. I personally haven't seen many dogs from recent coon dog lineage do well on big game and in a topic of locating big game, the bobcat is going to be king in that department. Will some dogs peppered with Nt. CH., Gr. Nt. Ch. in their papers do pretty good on bobcats. Sure, some might. But it's not where I would look first, unless those dogs/line of dogs are heavily hunted on bobcats and do well. Most guys who are big into the night hunts aren't going to do that because it could cost them a hunt down the line. Just my observation. Nance Bred dogs come from Lester Nance who was the foundation of the treeing walker breed. If I'm not mistaken the first registered treeing walker was White River King back in the 40s. Big Game guys took well balanced dogs from then and selectively bred the ones who had the traits that allowed them to be successfull on big game. No doubt there was a critical influence on original dogs, but close is that today. Most people just throw out a big name stud so people think it's offspring will be crackerjacks.

As for my area, I hunt in swampland WI which is pretty comparable across the midwest great lakes areas where guys hunt cats. I think it's probably pretty similiar on the east coast. It's wet, thick, roadless miserable sections where cat tracks can be tough to come by. We just don't have boatloads of cats to get any training experience and many times have crappy snow conditions to go with it. Neither are conducive to cat catching success. Mix in a lot of other junk to run, short seasons and it can get darn tough. Lots of our cats don't tree. Don't know why but they just don't. They'll bay up in brush piles or blow downs if pressured or if you have good snow catching conditions.

I guess I must have mis interpreted your crow pot comments, my mistake.

I know it's much tougher to find a good cat dog than it is a coon dog. That is indisputable.

No chip on my sholder at all, just my opinion. I never bad mouthed anyone or any mans dog. The crow pot statement was exactly what it was, nothing negative about it. Just the way it is if someone says a coon bred dog won't make a bobcat dog I'll show them that they can and do catch cats. You are 100% right that bobcat dogs are harder to find than coon dogs, also lion dogs and from what people have told me bear dogs. I don't know much about walkers or when they were first papered. I do know there are a lot of guys that catch cats with high powered coon bred walkers and all the other breeds too. The good ones come in all colors and from many different lines. My old Belle dog is in Wisconsin. She wan't what I would call a bobcat dog but she caught quite a few for me before she went to WI. She was a good lion dog. She catches bobcats in WI for the guy that owns her. She trees some but it sounds like they kill a lot on the ground too. Always wonder why the cats back there stay on the ground so much. Ours always tree or hole up. It's not real thick here and I wonder if that has anything to do with it? We have a lot of roadless places out here too but not too miserable, just real big country and steep with a lot of rock and cliffs. We also don't have boatloads of cats and bust our butts in trucks and on snowmobiles to find a track and then hope it doesn't melt out or blow in. Once in a while we have perfect conditions but not very often. All a dog has to do is work the cat track through whitetail and mule deer tracks, elk tracks, moose tracks, coyote tracks, skunk tracks, porcupine tracks, fox tracks, sometimes antelope tracks, bighorn sheep tracks, mountain goat tracks, badger tracks if it's warm enough, and then locate and tree the cat. Sounds like we deal with a lot of the same things while hunting. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world and if it was easy it just wouldn't be the same. Good hunting to you.

I never had a slick treeing dog...I did have a dog that was so fast that she would beat the critter to the tree!