BigGameHoundsmen.com

My running dogs will out cold trail most hounds. Taking a 12 to 16 hour old frozen in track I consider a cold track and leaving out on a run is impressive. Most people think a cold tracking dog is one that hammers a track out track for track with a lot of noise. That is not my idea of a trailing cat dog. I want them to take it heads up out of the air and off the rocks and what bush there is and run it. Not being over 5 to 10 feet off the track. They will put there noise down and trail but only if they half to. I hunt where there are few tracks one to four in a day driving 100 to 200 miles. I expect to catch them all thou. Being realistic that does not happen. I have drove all day and seen only one snowed in track. As far as being able to start a rig dog there it would be very hard but it is impossible if you don't try. I think they will start more and colder tracks off the rig. If I had snow why bother to rig, it is easier to cover more ground faster without it. On bare ground when it is not frozen I would choose rigging over roading any day. Walk hunting over either one, go where the cats are that is the best place to find them. Dewey

dwalton wrote:That is not my idea of a trailing cat dog. I want them to take it heads up out of the air and off the rocks and what bush there is and run it. Not being over 5 to 10 feet off the track. They will put there noise down and trail but only if they half to. Dewey

Dewey, I dont mean to be rude in any way my friend but that is not cold trailing That sounds like dogs running a jumped critter!

I'll step in and agree with Dewey, a good cold track dog should take a track on the run (cold track) and when need be, slow down and pick it out of a tracked up area. Maybe that's why a lot of guy's would rather run a hot track because it isn't fun to watch a dog stick it's nose in every track it see's. Like Dewey said, it's something to see a dog running a 10 hour old track like the cat just crossed.

Mondo, were not talking about hunting in snow where the dogs can see the track with there eyes and fly down it, who wouldnt expect their dogs to hustle their ass when they can run it with thier eye's and check with nose. we were talking about deweys dog flying off the rigg rack head up running cold tracking. I dont think them are cold tracks but thats just MO

Sorry I'll hush now, I never post here, dont know why I started

I like a dog to move a cold track at a good steady pace but a 12 hour old track HERE in the cold dry powder snow at say 10 degrees there are not many times the dogs will leave trailing heads up for the most part and I consider my dogs to have a pretty good nose, yes they do run buy sight at certain times and this makes it seem they are cold trailing at a greater pace. There is just not enough scent, so in the type of conditions and area I hunt for the most part it doesnt happen. I have had creditable bobcat hounds from other parts of the country come here in the conditions I am talking and not even know there is a cat track in front of them. So it all comes down to this until one has actually hunted their hounds in the certain areas (different parts of the country)and conditions with their hounds its all just here say what ones hounds can actually do in that certain area. This is not ment to be disrespectful to anyone its just the plain simple truth. I have came to the conclusion a hound is just like a snowmobile the minute you just think they are running awesome they will make a liar out of you. Andy

AH Mr. Dewey...we are truly Lost Children in the Wilderness of TREE Bred Houndsmen!

Folks who have never TRULY seen a COLD Nosed (or in our Case Medium Nosed with BRAINS) move a BAD (this could be an old, Frozen, or Hot Track in Bad Scenting Conditions) Track with power, authority, SPEED, and accuracy have not got a clue what we are talking about.

A Hound who has to go back and tell us time after time that here is where the Cat has been will not yield many Bobcats where we Hunt.

We need a Hound to Switch its tale and Bark and then move out to find the next HINT of Scent. Then have it tell us and the other Hounds where the Cat is heading. As the Team spreads out searching in all the Catty Places for scent the Track rapidly heats up! A FEEDING track might take longer, but with the Running Hounds Style soon the SLACK is taken out of the Track.

Now I know that there are places where a Plodding/Methodical, Head down, Bark and stop, maybe back up and bark Hound can get it done….just not where we Hunt!

Mr. Dewey I also agree with you about a “Rig Dog being Born”. For 40 years the Old Texas Bobcat Hunters would tell Dad that you can not Rig Bobcat in the South…that was only for Bear Hunters out West and up North….Bobcat do not leave enough SCENT…..you have to road the Hounds or you will miss most of the Cat…..you will only strike HOT Cats. These and other things he believed was Fact as these men had hunted all their lives. Then along comes RUBY!

Dad had always had a Hound or two who would strike out of the Box. Ruby made a regular practice of this. Dad started putting her up on the box and when she struck looking for a Track. WOW he had a Rig Dog. Rita quickly joined Ruby and they trained the Hounds we currently use. However we have put some VERY good Road Hunting Strike Hounds on top who never got comfortable on top and would not open from the Box. One is as Open Mouth as he has ever raised and will open quickly on a very Bad Track on the ground….yet is a complete flop as a Rig Hound!

Now we know of Folks successfully Rigging Bobcats in South Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri and Arkansas….all started by Ole Ruby or one of her desciples.

Not putting Anyone’s Hounds or the STYLE that works for them down, just telling the way it works here in the South East.

Trust me they are running a cold track on bare ground or in the snow. Most people have not seen it done and do not believe it can be done. The first time I saw dogs that could do this was in the late '60s or early '70. Roland Wilson had a old dog named Spook that was part running dog that from a young dog on up ever track he hit we thought that it was a hot track. If we caught him up and let the rest of the dogs have the track the dogs left would stand on there head and hammer the track out. You could put Spook back in and it sounded like a jump with the dogs flying threw the country again. I have seen in the dry summer weather letting my strike dog out just barely able to work a track then put Tanner out and he would sail past them opening like he had a good track and jump the cat an hour latter and miles from where we started it at. I have put on tracks that were frozen in on old snow in the road, very little snow in the timber the dogs go 6 to 8 miles to jump the cat in just a few hours. I have caught 1 to 4 cat a day with these dogs not because there is a lot of cat but because they cover the ground to get it done. Most of my jumps only last 5 to 10 minutes once in a while a little long. How long are your jumps. I must have the easiest cats in the country to tree. That is hunting on the coast, in the cascades or lodge pole or in the sage junipers snow or bare ground. Come hunt with me maybe you will see something that does not fit with what you know about cat hunting or maybe not. Dewey

Carey, believe me I have seen the calibur of mixed running dog you are talking of and would give my (Jewels) away to have that style of dog work here. As I have hunted with a pretty good pack of them a few times on the west coast and they can move a cold track in that area like nothing I have seen. But that type of dog here can no more move a cold track at that pace than a man in the moon. I have tried about every type of hound you can imagine over my years of cat hunting from about every place you can imagine and have yet to find many that cold trail a bobcat and once jumped run with heads up speed as the hounds I am running now for this area but believe me they can make a liar out of me real fast. Andy

I don't know if that offer stands for just anyone, but I wanta see it...and I want dogs that can get it done like that. It helps that I don't have any special ties to any particular strain or breed, so if there's a dog or dogs getting it done better than I have or have ever seen, I'll gladly switch brands. I'll give you a call soon Dewey.

Dewey do you mind if I ask how is the tanner dog bred & where did you get this breeding from? I know you are a very hard, knowledgable cat hunter. thanks Al Baldwin

This is not personal at anybody but I'm not going to sugar coat this.I posted on the first page of this topic,asked afew questions[no responses]so I'll try it a different way.I've became friends with a guy who hunts big cats for a living.He hunts in the driesest part of the state[which is exactly like where his dogs come from and are bred for]in which he lives.He gets some of his dogs from Warner Glenn and a couple of the other names most guys would recognize from New Mexico and Arizonia,and those dogs trail an OLD/COLD track[some 3-7 days old]and move through the country like most dogs run a good to jumped track.In fact most people who witness this happen ask these guys on a regular basis while riding along with them-"are they jumped or about ready to"?The common answer from these professionals are NO followed with an explanation of this.On that same old crappy track we are working right now,what would be the colder nosed dog---#1 Bufford who straddles the track and bellars everytime he smells and gives lots of tail [LOOKS LIKE HE'S STUGGLING/CAN BEARLEY WORK IT]or--#2 Old Ace who is got his head up trotting/loping up ahead[SOMETIMES ALOOOONG WAYS AHEAD]opening here and there[MAKING IT LOOK EASY AND MAYBE BETTTER THAN WHAT IT IS].They'll all tell you the same answer---We don't have or keep the BUFFORD'S for a reason.Can anybody tell me that arizona dessert conditions[an similar]are not dry/hot/cold conditions much like that of parts of Montana???These same well known famous hunters[one who caught his 1000th dry ground lion over27 years ago--he's still hunting full time]will tell ya they have selected and bred for this track style for a reason---because it works!!!This style of dog might not work for some folks,but like somebody else on here said--I'm not tied to a certain line of dogs[no vested interest]my thing is I truly enjoy a good dog[and agood dog in my view is one that catches game in different conditions in style--strikes,coldtrails-in the manner above,runs a jumped track to catch-makes the crners and keeps shifting to faster gear everytime it can,then finally locates and barks enough for me to find it without technology..I think all in all,most guys/hunters would agree with these expectations.Guys these dogs are out there,these hunters are out there,why is that so hard to believe???Maybe it'll be more believeable after another one of them has a book written about them and there is some actual folk lore thrown in there to actually BS it up abit.We as humans love it a little more juicy from time to time.What's the financial incentive for somebody to come up to Montana spend some time and fuel and try and get this tested out???

I not going to sit here and knock the running dogs because my hunting partner has some and so do a few other friends of mine, one of them friends, thats all he runs. Julys/ running walkers. They sure are the go to dog for coyote, they have good stamina! We throw some in on the cat races as well with our hounds, I see how they are and how they work. Our tree dogs are still the more complete package for us up here. Hell we are not partial, we just hunt what works best for us on cats. I still think once you get a good SOLID track pounding tree dog, they are going to be real hard to beat up here. Especialy when it comes to hunting with a client, them dogs need to stay treed for as long as it takes to get our guy in there, which can take a while.
Have a good one fellas!

Every body has a style and color that they like that is why there are so many different types of dogs. Each to their own good luck hunting. Dewey

Tim I appreicate your input, certainly do not doubt what you have experienced. I have ran very few lion tracks. Never hunted over 50 mile from home. Been tied to a confining job in my working days so between that and family my experience is more limited than others. I have found that trailing those few lions I experienced & trailing some of these bobcat has been very different. When someone states thier dogs trail 16 hr. old froze in bobcat track like the track is jumped that sure gets my interest. Sure not saying it isn,t so. It just makes me inquire where did that breeding come from? It would seem to me the Lion hunters would be beating on anyones door who has such dogs. As I noticed some post talking about trailing lions many miles & never jumping. I did buy a dog years ago that could sure trail some tracks a lot faster than the average hounds most had in this area. So have seem a little of that. That dog caught some tough bobcats alone & some he caught on the ground, but there were other times he sure got beat by these bobcats. I just don,t know how one can be so certain how old some of these tracks are. Tim if you get down this way stop in will treat you as always. Thanks Al BALDWIN

The analogy was only for the dogs style,not so much the specicies of game being trailed.I too view that a combo dog will not match the skill of a game specific dog when it comes to bobcat,that's all mine have permission to mess with.Good luck to all,its to good a day to stay in here,adios